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  • #16
    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
    As for the OP this law seems stupid.
    see my previous post that's not the stupidest law Berkley has enacted.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      If they're plugin hybrids, and you recharge them at home? Sure. Otherwise they're worse than diesel cars.
      In what way?

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        It's like some folks with electric cars. Little do they realize that the electricity that they use to charge their car more likely than not comes from a coal-powered power plant.
        (Five minutes googling and half an hour writing it up later ...)

        This was true in 2001, assuming a random distribution of electric vehicle owners and non-coal power plants, but things have changed.

        postpowershare.jpg

        The Post (Updated March 28, 2017) had electricity from natural gas at 34/30 over coal, using 2016 preliminaries.
        There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year. [...] There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.

        Because of fracking, the game is over for coal based on raw economics, even before we look at external costs from excess CO2 generation. As fracking has made natural gas plants cheaper, they've been replacing coal plants. Natural gas plants are now well ahead on electric power generation.

        The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has them at 35/27 for 2018.

        outlet-graph-large.jpg

        What about EVs, and especially EVs in California.

        Looking at Electric Vehicle distribution:
        [Redacted for clarity]

        Average number of plug-in cars in U.S. is 2.21 per 1,000 residents. In total, eight states exceed 2 plug-in cars per 1,000 residents, compared to five a year earlier:

        Per 1000 residents:

        8.64 EVs - California
        5.12 EVs - Hawaii
        4.06 EVs - Washington
        3.84 EVs - Oregon
        3.73 EVs - Vermont
        2.33 EVs - Colorado
        2.29 EVs - Arizona
        2.03 EVs - Maryland

        Looking at electricity generation in CA:

        chart.jpg

        So here's what I'm seeing. Coal has joined the choir invisible in CA, with natural gas running behind hydro running behind non-hydro renewables. And if you see a random pic of an EV on a U.S. road, it could be from lots of places, but your best bet is California, with a sucker side bet that it's not powered from coal.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          (Five minutes googling and half an hour writing it up later ...)

          This was true in 2001, assuming a random distribution of electric vehicle owners and non-coal power plants, but things have changed.

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]38469[/ATTACH]

          The Post (Updated March 28, 2017) had electricity from natural gas at 34/30 over coal, using 2016 preliminaries.
          There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year. [...] There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.

          Because of fracking, the game is over for coal based on raw economics, even before we look at external costs from excess CO2 generation. As fracking has made natural gas plants cheaper, they've been replacing coal plants. Natural gas plants are now well ahead on electric power generation.

          The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has them at 35/27 for 2018.

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]38471[/ATTACH]

          What about EVs, and especially EVs in California.

          Looking at Electric Vehicle distribution:
          [Redacted for clarity]

          Average number of plug-in cars in U.S. is 2.21 per 1,000 residents. In total, eight states exceed 2 plug-in cars per 1,000 residents, compared to five a year earlier:

          Per 1000 residents:

          8.64 EVs - California
          5.12 EVs - Hawaii
          4.06 EVs - Washington
          3.84 EVs - Oregon
          3.73 EVs - Vermont
          2.33 EVs - Colorado
          2.29 EVs - Arizona
          2.03 EVs - Maryland

          Looking at electricity generation in CA:

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]38470[/ATTACH]

          So here's what I'm seeing. Coal has joined the choir invisible in CA, with natural gas running behind hydro running behind non-hydro renewables. And if you see a random pic of an EV on a U.S. road, it could be from lots of places, but your best bet is California, with a sucker side bet that it's not powered from coal.
          Glad to see that things have changed.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
            Natural gas can generate electricity!
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
              This is Berkley we are talking about same city that now has a law that you can't refer to manhole covers as manhole covers I think it is something like maintenance tunnel covers they are to be refered to as. you can't refer to fraternities or sororities you have to refer to them as part of the Greek system etc...
              The idiots who come up with this stuff should be dropped down a manhole.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Natural gas is one of the cleanest burning fuels there is, pollution wise or causing global warming.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Natural gas is one of the cleanest burning fuels there is, pollution wise or causing global warming.
                  And if you live in a cold climate it is the best heating fuel.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Natural gas is one of the cleanest burning fuels there is, pollution wise or causing global warming.
                    But there's still snow. How can there be global warming?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Glad to see that things have changed.
                      And Now, the Really Big Coal Plants Begin to Close
                      When the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona shuts down later this year, it will be one of the largest carbon emitters to ever close in American history.

                      The giant coal plant on Arizona’s high desert emitted almost 135 million metric tons of carbon dioxide between 2010 and 2017, according to an E&E News review of federal figures.

                      Its average annual emissions over that period are roughly equivalent to what 3.3 million passenger cars would pump into the atmosphere in a single year. Of all the coal plants to be retired in the United States in recent years, none has emitted more.

                      The Navajo Generating Station isn’t alone. It’s among a new wave of super-polluters headed for the scrap heap. Bruce Mansfield, a massive coal plant in Pennsylvania, emitted nearly 123 million tons between 2010 and 2017. It, too, will be retired by year’s end (Energywire, Aug. 12).

                      And in western Kentucky, the Paradise plant emitted some 102 million tons of carbon over that period. The Tennessee Valley Authority closed two of Paradise’s three units in 2017. It will close the last one next year (Greenwire, Feb. 14).

                      navajocoal.jpg

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                        And Now, the Really Big Coal Plants Begin to Close
                        When the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona shuts down later this year, it will be one of the largest carbon emitters to ever close in American history.

                        The giant coal plant on Arizona’s high desert emitted almost 135 million metric tons of carbon dioxide between 2010 and 2017, according to an E&E News review of federal figures.

                        Its average annual emissions over that period are roughly equivalent to what 3.3 million passenger cars would pump into the atmosphere in a single year. Of all the coal plants to be retired in the United States in recent years, none has emitted more.

                        The Navajo Generating Station isn’t alone. It’s among a new wave of super-polluters headed for the scrap heap. Bruce Mansfield, a massive coal plant in Pennsylvania, emitted nearly 123 million tons between 2010 and 2017. It, too, will be retired by year’s end (Energywire, Aug. 12).

                        And in western Kentucky, the Paradise plant emitted some 102 million tons of carbon over that period. The Tennessee Valley Authority closed two of Paradise’s three units in 2017. It will close the last one next year (Greenwire, Feb. 14).

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]39123[/ATTACH]
                        What are they replacing it with?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          The idiots who come up with this stuff should be dropped down a manhole.
                          They're no longer manholes! They're maintenance access holes.
                          When I Survey....

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Faber View Post
                            They're no longer manholes! They're maintenance access holes.
                            Yes, those manholes called maintenance access holes!
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              What are they replacing it with?
                              I doubt my google-fu is any better than yours, but here's what searching turned up for me ...

                              Changing demand – and supply
                              Demand for power in Tennessee dropped nearly 6 percent during the 2007-2009 Great Recession, and – driven by continued “sluggish demand” from industry – is still 5 percent below its 2007 peak. Residential demand is up only 0.2 percent over the same period. Meanwhile fuel prices, driven by the fracking boom, have made natural gas competitive with coal plants.

                              The report says future demand is hard to predict, but it’s unlikely to grow for at least a few years.

                              TVA CEO Johnson said in August he expects decline in power use to be a permanent trend, driven by greater efficiency. That means TVA’s biggest and oldest generating facilities will be excess capacity, even as they grow more expensive to keep running. For the next 20 years the trend is toward smaller-scale and more flexible power sources, including solar and wind, Johnson said.

                              “Coal and nuclear generators, the traditional sources of base load, are retiring and being replaced by renewable and natural gas generating capacity,” the report said.

                              I'd imagine it's the same story in AZ and PA.

                              Comment

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