Bernie the Hypocrite

[Sparko]

Bernie has been going around saying he will raise the minimum wage to $15/hour, a living wage, and that it won't hurt the business owners.

And recently he has been under fire by his own employees for not paying them $15/hour.

Well, here is his solution:

Bernie Sanders campaign announces it will cut hours to pay staffers $15 minimum wage, prompting mockeryhttps://www.foxnews.com/politics/ber...mpting-mockery

He went on to whine:

"It does bother me that people are going outside of the process and going to the media," Sanders added. "That is really not acceptable. It is really not what labor negotiations are about, and it's improper."

Response was not kind...

[rogue06]

Bernie was burned by his own rhetoric and revealed exactly what happens when you raise pay beyond what demand calls for.

[Sparko]

Bernie was burned by his own rhetoric and revealed exactly what happens when you raise pay beyond what demand calls for.

The guy preaches socialism while owning 3 homes and is a millionaire. I think he shot himself in the foot before he even took a step. But I don't think his devout followers will notice.

[Mountain Man]

Looks like his campaign staff is really starting to feel the Bern.

Maybe these idiots will realize that raising the minimum wage doesn't magically put more revenue in a company's bank account with which to pay the increased wages. Cuts have to be made to balance out the wage increase.

[Sparko]

Looks like his campaign staff is really starting to feel the Bern.

Maybe these idiots will realize that raising the minimum wage doesn't magically put more revenue in a company's bank account with which to pay the increased wages. Cuts have to be made to balance out the wage increase.

I am also betting he is regretting using union workers on his campaign.

[mikewhitney]

First, I wonder why these workers are more concerned about $15/hour rather than getting their guy elected.

Then, I doubt that the workers want to work fewer hours so that their pay becomes $15/hour. They may want to be able to work more hours to get more pay.

Also, does this mean that Bernie is paying them a fixed amount rather than an hourly wage? and overtime?

[KingsGambit]

I'm curious about this quote:

"It does bother me that people are going outside of the process and going to the media," Sanders added. "That is really not acceptable. It is really not what labor negotiations are about, and it's improper."

Isn't it relatively common for unions to appeal to the public in negotiation? Growing up, I always saw unions standing along the road, holding up signs saying "Shame on (name of business ). Labor dispute". (I thought those signs were useless because they didn't tell me why I should take the union's side in the dispute.)

[Sparko]

First, I wonder why these workers are more concerned about $15/hour rather than getting their guy elected.

They are union. That's what unions do, fight over wages.

Then, I doubt that the workers want to work fewer hours so that their pay becomes $15/hour. They may want to be able to work more hours to get more pay.

who knows. It might depend on the individual. Same pay less hours might be nice. But I am thinking the reason they want more per hour is because their paycheck isn't enough to pay the bills. In that case, same pay, fewer hours would suck.

Also, does this mean that Bernie is paying them a fixed amount rather than an hourly wage? and overtime?

I am thinking it is hourly but he has only so much budgeted per person.

[KingsGambit]

They are union. That's what unions do, fight over wages.

And also ensure contracts are followed. The union at my last job did this by watching for safety and contract violations. Unfortunately, the steward made it difficult for me to take him seriously by filing downright stupid grievances. (He once filed a grievance on behalf of an employee whom the manager said "good morning" to. He wanted to be paid for the job function of being told "good morning", and the steward filed this grievance).

The steward also went around the office wearing a Trump hat, which was a violation of the Hatch Act, so it seemed to me he didn't actually care about the rules, he just wanted to fight.

[Sparko]

And also ensure contracts are followed. The union at my last job did this by watching for safety and contract violations. Unfortunately, the steward made it difficult for me to take him seriously by filing downright stupid grievances. (He once filed a grievance on behalf of an employee whom the manager said "good morning" to. He wanted to be paid for the job function of being told "good morning", and the steward filed this grievance).

The steward also went around the office wearing a Trump hat, which was a violation of the Hatch Act, so it seemed to me he didn't actually care about the rules, he just wanted to fight.

My uncle worked in the coal mines and belonged to a union. They were on strike half of the year. They lost more money being on strike than they made in getting raises because of the strikes, or whatever concessions they wanted. One time they went on strike because the coal mine wasn't supplying bars of soap for the shower.

[carpedm9587]

First, I wonder why these workers are more concerned about $15/hour rather than getting their guy elected.

Then, I doubt that the workers want to work fewer hours so that their pay becomes $15/hour. They may want to be able to work more hours to get more pay.

Also, does this mean that Bernie is paying them a fixed amount rather than an hourly wage? and overtime?

There's a lot of hype around this, and a lot of misinformation. The Sanders campaign has all of their staff on salary. The lowest paid are getting $36K plus full benefits. They are also unionized so they can collectively bargain. In the heat of a campaign, a lot of hours can be worked, resulting in a greater-than-40-hour work week. Because they're salaried, the more hours they work the smaller their effective hourly rate. When the union brought this to the campaign's attention, they elected to reduce hours to a normal work week rather than increase salaries. That means if they want the same amount of work done, they will have to hire more people. The choice is basically "same people more money" or "more people same money." They appear to be going the latter direction.

The "three houses" thing is a canard. His wife lives and works in Vermont (from their primary home). Many people in Vermont have summer cottages or "camps" they use to get away during the summer and on weekends. My elderly in-laws have one, and she was a housewife and he a line worker for Polaroid. If it was bought decades ago, it was likely bought for a few thousand dollars. If you are also working extensively in another place (D.C.) then you have to choose between rent, commute, or buy. Often, the amount you spend renting could pay a mortgage and it makes more fiscal sense to buy and then sell when it is no longer needed. So he has a row house in D.C.

And he just recently became a millionaire due to the sale of his book. A million dollars in 2019 is not a great deal of money. Someone retiring on a million dollars will have a comfortable but somewhat frugal retirement, depending on where they live. It still means they have more money than a LOT of people in the U.S., but they are hardly "rich."

[carpedm9587]

I'm curious about this quote:



Isn't it relatively common for unions to appeal to the public in negotiation? Growing up, I always saw unions standing along the road, holding up signs saying "Shame on (name of business ). Labor dispute". (I thought those signs were useless because they didn't tell me why I should take the union's side in the dispute.)

In my experience - that happened AFTER an initial attempt at negotiation. What Bern is apparently saying is that the union started in the public sphere before even giving the campaign a chance to examine the issue and respond.

[rogue06]

The "three houses" thing is a canard. His wife lives and works in Vermont (from their primary home). Many people in Vermont have summer cottages or "camps" they use to get away during the summer and on weekends.

Sanders' $600,000 4 bedroom "summer cottage" has 500' of beachfront property along Lake Champlain.

And he just recently became a millionaire due to the sale of his book.

Correct. In spite of both Bernie and his wife making six figures for quite some time they didn't have a whole lot of money due chiefly to unsound investments. The Sanders liked to invest in "socially conscious" politically correct things which tended to lose money.

Yup, he's a great guy to take advice on about how to run an economy.

[carpedm9587]

Sanders' $600,000 4 bedroom "summer cottage" has 500' of beachfront property along Lake Champlain.

I'd want to know when he bought it. My in-laws summer cottage is three bedrooms and has 400' of lake front and it cost them $12K 45 years ago. But even so, Sander's wife is a professional and they have above median income. When did "socialism" mean "communism?" Who cares what they have for homes? "Everyone should be paid a fair wage" doesn't translate into "everyone should be paid the same wage."

Correct. In spite of both Bernie and his wife making six figures for quite some time they didn't have a whole lot of money due chiefly to unsound investments. The Sanders liked to invest in "socially conscious" politically correct things which tended to lose money.

Yup, he's a great guy to take advice on about how to run an economy.

I have no idea what Sanders did and did not invest in. Can you provide some data for this claim?

[Sparko]

There's a lot of hype around this, and a lot of misinformation. The Sanders campaign has all of their staff on salary. The lowest paid are getting $36K plus full benefits. They are also unionized so they can collectively bargain. In the heat of a campaign, a lot of hours can be worked, resulting in a greater-than-40-hour work week. Because they're salaried, the more hours they work the smaller their effective hourly rate. When the union brought this to the campaign's attention, they elected to reduce hours to a normal work week rather than increase salaries. That means if they want the same amount of work done, they will have to hire more people. The choice is basically "same people more money" or "more people same money." They appear to be going the latter direction.

The "three houses" thing is a canard. His wife lives and works in Vermont (from their primary home). Many people in Vermont have summer cottages or "camps" they use to get away during the summer and on weekends. My elderly in-laws have one, and she was a housewife and he a line worker for Polaroid. If it was bought decades ago, it was likely bought for a few thousand dollars. If you are also working extensively in another place (D.C.) then you have to choose between rent, commute, or buy. Often, the amount you spend renting could pay a mortgage and it makes more fiscal sense to buy and then sell when it is no longer needed. So he has a row house in D.C.

And he just recently became a millionaire due to the sale of his book. A million dollars in 2019 is not a great deal of money. Someone retiring on a million dollars will have a comfortable but somewhat frugal retirement, depending on where they live. It still means they have more money than a LOT of people in the U.S., but they are hardly "rich."

His "summer cottage" cost $575,000. His Vermont home cost $405,000. His Washington DC home cost $489,000. These were all bought before he sold his book.

And becoming a millionaire from SELLING a book sounds pretty capitalist to me.