Bernie the Hypocrite

[Cow Poke]

And also ensure contracts are followed. The union at my last job did this by watching for safety and contract violations. Unfortunately, the steward made it difficult for me to take him seriously by filing downright stupid grievances.....

In my brief stint with the UAW, that was my experience --- the union often seemed to feel a need to justify their existence, so they often filed grievances for really really stupid stuff. One of my biggest complaints was that, in my particular situation, some of the minorities seemed to bask in the "you can't touch ME" nonsense, and would take extra long breaks, and just DARE management to challenge them so they could file a discrimination grievance, which the union would support. It was downright crazy.

We had a couple of skilled trades guys who were functional alcoholics who drank on the job, and everybody knew it, but they had the seniority and the support of the union...

[Mountain Man]

In my brief stint with the UAW, that was my experience --- the union often seemed to feel a need to justify their existence, so they often filed grievances for really really stupid stuff. One of my biggest complaints was that, in my particular situation, some of the minorities seemed to bask in the "you can't touch ME" nonsense, and would take extra long breaks, and just DARE management to challenge them so they could file a discrimination grievance, which the union would support. It was downright crazy.

We had a couple of skilled trades guys who were functional alcoholics who drank on the job, and everybody knew it, but they had the seniority and the support of the union...

I've had the "pleasure" of working with union crews in my business. One trick they like to use is that they are guaranteed 1-hour for lunch, so they will insist on having 15-minutes before and 15-minutes after so they have time to wash their hands, retrieve their lunch from their lockers, walk to the break room, and so on, the idea being that their butts will be sitting at the lunch table for exactly 1-hour and not a second less. They treated this as a God-given right. Another thing they liked to do was work slower and slower as it got towards quitting time, and then they would casually ask, "You want me to finish this up before I leave?" hoping it would push them into overtime (guaranteed 4-hours of pay at overtime wages even if they only worked 1-minute of overtime).

For the most part, I consider unions wholly useless and a drag on American businesses.

[rogue06]

In their day they were necessary but not so much today. There's a reason union membership has been steadily dwindling. Even increases in membership in the government sector can't come close to offsetting losses in the private sector.

[Cow Poke]

I've had the "pleasure" of working with union crews in my business. One trick they like to use is that they are guaranteed 1-hour for lunch, so they will insist on having 15-minutes before and 15-minutes after so they have time to wash their hands, retrieve their lunch from their lockers, walk to the break room, and so on, the idea being that their butts will be sitting at the lunch table for exactly 1-hour and not a second less. They treated this as a God-given right. Another thing they liked to do was work slower and slower as it got towards quitting time, and then they would casually ask, "You want me to finish this up before I leave?" hoping it would push them into overtime (guaranteed 4-hours of pay at overtime wages even if they only worked 1-minute of overtime).

For the most part, I consider unions wholly useless and a drag on American businesses.

Fresh out of high school, I worked for a company in the telecommunications business that was "family owned". There was a union that was constantly trying to push the employees to vote to "go union". The owner of the company got tired of this, and called for a company-wide meeting to address the situation. He had everybody meet at a local high school auditorium after lunch on a Friday, and he gave an interesting speech. He said that he knew that there were efforts to unionize, so he said, "let me list some of the benefits you enjoy that few other businesses provide...." and he listed some interesting benefits, like "flex time" way before it was popular, and competitive pay, and unparalleled Blue Cross Blue Shield insurance with ZERO cost to families, etc etc etc.....

Then he said, "we're going to vote today -- but let me be very clear. I believe I have provided a work environment far superior to what a union would be able to provide, but you have a choice. You can decide, today, that you wish to proceed with the process of unionizing, in which case, at my age, I really don't need the hassle and aggravation, so I will simply shut down the company and enjoy my retirement." I'll never forget, he repeated that again, slowly and deliberately, to let everybody know he was dead serious. Then he said, "I invited the union officials to whom some of you have been talking, and they're right down here in front - so here's how we vote -- if you're happy with the way things are, you may leave now and enjoy the rest of your Friday afternoon at home -- if, however, you prefer to continue the attempt to unionize, come down here and meet with these union officials".

The vast majority of people left the building, and I didn't stay to see who, if anybody, stayed to talk to the union reps.

[carpedm9587]

His "summer cottage" cost $575,000. His Vermont home cost $405,000. His Washington DC home cost $489,000. These were all bought before he sold his book.

And becoming a millionaire from SELLING a book sounds pretty capitalist to me.

It is. Right now, Bernie lives in a capitalistic country. If you're going to have an income and pay bills, you don't have a lot of choice but to make it in the existing capitalistic system. I'm not seeing a problem with any of this and Bernie's espoused positions calling for change. It's also not clear to me that Bernie has ever espoused eliminating capitalism in the U.S. It might help if people stopped reading the FOx and Brietbart spins and actually went to the source: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...cialism-120265

ETA: Out of curiosity, is your "cost" the price Bernie purchased it at, or the price it is currently valued at? Not that it makes any difference to me...as I said, there is no "hypocrisy" that I can see here.

[Sparko]

It is. Right now, Bernie lives in a capitalistic country. If you're going to have an income and pay bills, you don't have a lot of choice but to make it in the existing capitalistic system. I'm not seeing a problem with any of this and Bernie's espoused positions calling for change. It's also not clear to me that Bernie has ever espoused eliminating capitalism in the U.S. It might help if people stopped reading the FOx and Brietbart spins and actually went to the source: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...cialism-120265

Of course he has a choice. He can live by his espoused principals if he wishes to. Nobody is forcing the guy to be a millionaire or own three houses or drive fancy cars. Your defending him, as another rich guy who has been defending socialism while being a capitalist, doesn't carry much weight.

[carpedm9587]

Of course he has a choice. He can live by his espoused principals if he wishes to. Nobody is forcing the guy to be a millionaire or own three houses or drive fancy cars. Your defending him, as another rich guy who has been defending socialism while being a capitalist, doesn't carry much weight.

As far as I can tell - there is nothing about his lifestyle that is at odds with his principles. I've gone through his various statements and I'm not seeing a disconnect. I AM seeing a disconnect between how other people have "spun" or "twisted" his views about socialism and how he lives - but not with what he has actually SAID. If you think otherwise, then I'd be interested in knowing which statement he has made you believe is inconsistent with his lifestyle.

[Cow Poke]

As far as I can tell - there is nothing about his lifestyle that is at odds with his principles. I've gone through his various statements and I'm not seeing a disconnect. I AM seeing a disconnect between how other people have "spun" or "twisted" his views about socialism and how he lives - but not with what he has actually SAID.

What I AM seeing is what a conservative he looks like compared to his nuttier colleagues!

[carpedm9587]

What I AM seeing is what a conservative he looks like compared to his nuttier colleagues!

Oh there are indeed a few "nuts" in the Democratic primaries. But then again...there are pretty much always a few nuts in the mix. Makes for a good banana bread...

[Cow Poke]

Oh there are indeed a few "nuts" in the Democratic primaries. But then again...there are pretty much always a few nuts in the mix. Makes for a good banana bread...

The nuts, however, are sucking all the oxygen. Banana bread with isn't very good with extreme nuts.

[carpedm9587]

The nuts, however, are sucking all the oxygen. Banana bread with isn't very good with extreme nuts.

Nah...the primaries are doing what primaries always do - put the issues out there, jockey for position with the electorate, and see what rises to the top. When you have 25(?) candidates, no one will be a clear front-runner until several have dropped out and their constituents found their "next favorite" candidate. Until then, the zoo continues. Meanwhile, a lot of folks on the right are apparently losing their minds over the "socialists" and "far-left" candidates running. So far, all I see is a lot of ideas being floated and tested. It's a good thing. And there's plenty of oxygen.

[Cow Poke]

Nah...the primaries are doing what primaries always do -

I'm hoping you guys keep believing that.

put the issues out there, jockey for position with the electorate, and see what rises to the top. When you have 25(?) candidates, no one will be a clear front-runner until several have dropped out and their constituents found their "next favorite" candidate. Until then, the zoo continues.

I don't know that I've ever seen such a predicament for one party's Speaker like "the squad" elbowing themselves to be the new face of the Democratic party, leaving the rest to either oppose or join them.

I kinda like how Piers Morgan described them... " young, female, screechy, super-woke, easily triggered radical socialist snowflake with a disdainful view of America "

[carpedm9587]

I'm hoping you guys keep believing that.

Interesting. It would seem you would only be hoping this if you want Trump to win again...

I don't know that I've ever seen such a predicament for one party's Speaker like "the squad" elbowing themselves to be the new face of the Democratic party, leaving the rest to either oppose or join them.

Really? Did you completely miss the 2016 election?

I kinda like how Piers Morgan described them... " young, female, screechy, super-woke, easily triggered radical socialist snowflake with a disdainful view of America "

Yeah - they're getting hit with a lot of sexist, mysogynistic poop from all sides. I find their energy and enthusiasm somewhat refreshing. I do think they are political neophytes that are likely to get crushed by the system - but maybe some of what they are saying will actually be heard and they will have an impact. Mostly, I hear a group of women who want America to step up and be what it has the potential to be, instead of what it has become.

[Sparko]

As far as I can tell - there is nothing about his lifestyle that is at odds with his principles. I've gone through his various statements and I'm not seeing a disconnect. I AM seeing a disconnect between how other people have "spun" or "twisted" his views about socialism and how he lives - but not with what he has actually SAID. If you think otherwise, then I'd be interested in knowing which statement he has made you believe is inconsistent with his lifestyle.

He espouses free college, free healthcare, socialism, taxing the rich at very high rates to help pay for all that, and condemning capitalism and the rich, claiming how the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, while being one of the rich capitalists himself.

As you are pretty much in the same boat with him, I am not surprised that you don't see it.


"A nation will not surve morally or economically when so few have so much, while so many have so little."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders


"At a time of massive inequality, I think we can raise substantial sums of revenue to address the needs of working families, the elderly, and the children, by asking those people who are doing phenomenally well to start paying their fair share."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders


"At a time of massive inequality, I think we can raise substantial sums of revenue to address the needs of working families, the elderly, and the children, by asking those people who are doing phenomenally well to start paying their fair share."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

"In the United States today we have the most unequal wealth and income distribution of any major country on earth -- worse than at any time since the 1920s. This is an economy that must be changed in fundamental ways."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

"It would, I think, be hard for anyone to make the case that the United States is a just society or anything close to a just society. In America today, there is massive injustice in terms of income and wealth inequality. Injustice is rampant." ~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

"Let us wage a moral and political war against the gross wealth and income inequality... ...let us understand that when we stand together, we will always win."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

"Now is the time to alter our government. Now is the time to stop the movement toward oligarchy. Now is the time to create a government which represents all Americans and not just the 1%... No more excuses. We must all become involved in the political process."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

"There is something profoundly wrong when we have a proliferation of millionaires and billionaires at the same time as millions of Americans work longer hours for lower wages."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders


"We are living at a time where a handful of people have wealth beyond comprehension - huge yachts, jet planes, tens of billions of dollars, more money than they could spend in a thousand lifetimes. But at the same time, millions of people are struggling to feed their families or put a roof over their heads or find the money to go to a doctor." ~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

"We will not accept a society in which the very rich get richer, while almost everyone else becomes poorer."
~ Sen. Bernie Sanders

https://www.betterworld.net/quotes/bernie/bernie8.htm

I eagerly await your handwave dismissal.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting. It would seem you would only be hoping this if you want Trump to win again...

I don't want a socialist nutjob to win --- if that means Trump gets another 4 years, we shall see.

Really? Did you completely miss the 2016 election?

Who was comparable to "the Squad"?

Yeah - they're getting hit with a lot of sexist, mysogynistic poop from all sides. I find their energy and enthusiasm somewhat refreshing. I do think they are political neophytes that are likely to get crushed by the system - but maybe some of what they are saying will actually be heard and they will have an impact. Mostly, I hear a group of women who want America to step up and be what it has the potential to be, instead of what it has become.

I hear a group of women shouting "ME", "ME", "no, ME!!!!"..... and making idiotic claims and jackass proposals.