Originally posted by folk_rocker_4jc in the thread Gee, Honey, I hope you make it. on 02-16-2004:
[smile=3221]If I can, may I propose some things about where I think God may very well save babies, the mentally handicapped, the stillborn, etc? I don't think I can come up with an iron-clad proof
that he will, but I think I can justify leaning that way.
1st off, in regards to my post on Matt 11- Tyre & Sidon as preached by Christ, that would lead one to believe that God would take into consideration that someone might positively respond to his grace if it were given. I know Calvinists are going to object that is God foreseeing "merit" in someone, but at least we can agree that this is one means by which he would righteously judge someone based on what they "would have" done.
So that would leave God sending some babies to hell. Where would I get the idea he might not
Throughout the Bible we have the doctrine of God being vociferously in the side of the poor and the oppressed, the widow, & the orphan, the weak & disadvantaged, etc. Of course, all of us are "weak & disadvantaged" compared to God, but God himself does point out that there are those who are more so “the poor” at various levels in life than others. So consider these passages:
Open your mouth for the mute, In the cause of all who are left desolate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, And serve justice to the poor and needy. (World English Bible)
8 "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves
, for the rights of all who are destitute. 9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." (NIV)
For the poor will never cease out of the land: therefore I command you, saying, You shall surely open your hand to your brother, to your needy, and to your poor, in your land.
He raises up the poor out of the dust, He lifts up the needy from the dunghill, To make them sit with princes, Inherit the throne of glory: For the pillars of the earth are Yahweh's, He has set the world on them.
2Sa 12:1 Yahweh sent Nathan to David. He came to him, and said to him, "There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
2Sa 12:2 The rich man had very many flocks and herds,
2Sa 12:3 but the poor man had nothing, except one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and raised. It grew up together with him, and with his children. It ate of his own food, drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was to him like a daughter.
2Sa 12:4 A traveler came to the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man who had come to him, but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man who had come to him."
2Sa 12:5 David's anger was greatly kindled against the man, and he said to Nathan, "As Yahweh lives, the man who has done this is worthy to die!
2Sa 12:6 He shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity!"
"Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me:
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of occasions of stumbling! for it must needs be that the occasions come; but woe to that man through whom the occasion cometh!
Mat 18:10 See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man came to save that which was lost.
Actually, there’s scores
of verses on this- go put “the poor” into any Bible search engine and see for yourself! I know what I’ve done is sort of a rough approximation, just a general show of God’s concern for children and the weak, but with so much there to show from, it’s harder for me to believe he wouldn’t grant grace to someone who was in a situation such as being stillborn or mentally handicapped, than to believe he would in fact do so.
Originally posted by Leroy
I don’t demand
anything. I have a strong hunch in favor of it, that’s all.
Originally posted by troutk13
It can bee seen as compatible with either Calvinist or Arminian schools of thought. It doesn’t necessitate either. Charleen’s concern is that a God predisposed to double-predestination would have less of a concern for the disadvantaged in this world.[/smile]