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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    That was before the civil rights movement Tea, of course the south was anti Lincoln reconstructionist republican, but the reason for the switch to republican was the democrat party's civil rights agenda. Southerners don't want to admit that now anymore than they want to admit that the civil war was over slavery. It was!
    Reconstruction was over, that's true - but Southerners HADN'T forgotten - and the hatred of the Republicans ran so deep that it continued until the Civil Rights movement was over.

    I was THERE.


    No, not my point, my point is that the reason for the change was the Democrat party's support for civil rights. Just look back to the stats you posted where southern democrats voted overwhelmingly agaist their own party, and with their republican counterparts against civil rights legislation. At that point they were still democrats, but democrats in name only.
    And you are completely wrong. It DID cause a fracture - but they didn't leave the Democratic party for another twenty years.

    Why is that interesting at all? The only interesting thing about the fact that there were only 7 out of 95 southern democrats who voted for the civil rights reform, is the fact that there were only 7 who voted yea. The vast majority of democrats voted along with the republicans against their own party.
    If these folks are all driven by hate it should be zero.


    Tea, you're confusing two separate issues. The south hated republicans after the civil war, Lincoln, reconstruction, etc. That was a long time ago. But, they began to turn on the democrats for the same reason, i.e. civil rights, and that culminated into the 1960' and 70's. until the present where they are still fairly solidly republican. Though there are cracks now showing in that old southern racist armor.
    No, you are not understanding just how much the South was STILL affected by the Civil War and Reconstruction 100 years after the fact. Reconstruction did very nasty things - and people did not forget.


    Never said southern republicans were imbeciles, I implied they were racists, and so were the southern democrats that joined them in trying to block civil rights reforms.
    Was there a legitimate alternative that would allow them to get elected?

    Yes, we all know the line. What was nasty was the souths uncivil, unequal, treatment of African Americans which resulted in civil rights reform and the VRA pushed by the democrats.
    Both were wrong - and the VRA caused more strife than was remotely necessary.

    Also, the Democrats were drug kicking and screaming into the Civil Rights Movement - they did NOT want it at first.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

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    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      So, Trump prophesied this one year ago!

      August 29, 2018...

      In late-night tweet, Donald Trump accuses China of hacking Hillary Clinton’s emails

      US President Donald Trump said on Twitter that China hacked the emails of 2016 Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton but did not offer any evidence or further information.

      “Hillary Clinton’s Emails, many of which are Classified Information, got hacked by China. Next move better be by the FBI & DOJ or, after all of their other missteps (Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Ohr, FISA, Dirty Dossier etc.), their credibility will be forever gone!” he tweeted a little after midnight on Wednesday.
      Why Trump so irresponsible?!??!, also unpresidential, tweet yuge accusations without proof.
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        I was THERE...
        Bless you for fighting the good fight, but it's kinda like explaining card tricks to chickens.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          No, you are not understanding just how much the South was STILL affected by the Civil War and Reconstruction 100 years after the fact. Reconstruction did very nasty things - and people did not forget.
          A lot longer than 100-years. In the mid-1990s, I covered a story in Danville, Virginia (the last capital of the South) where they were dedicating a monument to the Southern soldiers of the Civil War. But when a local council woman said that the monument was to honor all the soldiers who fought and died, she was all but run off the podium by a chorus of boo's. I believe there are Southerners to this day who still believe they have a God-given right to secede from the United States.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            A lot longer than 100-years. In the mid-1990s, I covered a story in Danville, Virginia (the last capital of the South) where they were dedicating a monument to the Southern soldiers of the Civil War. But when a local council woman said that the monument was to honor all the soldiers who fought and died, she was all but run off the podium by a chorus of boo's. I believe there are Southerners to this day who still believe they have a God-given right to secede from the United States.
            It's been a few years, however, since I've heard the chants of "The South will RISE AGAIN!" (but, that was up in East Texas area - Tyler and surrounding)
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              It's been a few years, however, since I've heard the chants of "The South will RISE AGAIN!" (but, that was up in East Texas area - Tyler and surrounding)
              Hardcore Southerners refuse to concede that it ever fell.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Hardcore Southerners refuse to concede that it ever fell.
                It was, of course, the war of Northern Aggression, and we decided enough family blood had been shed, and the North wasn't going to be happy til they "won", so we allowed them to think that.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Bless you for fighting the good fight, but it's kinda like explaining card tricks to chickens.
                  More like playing chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Hardcore Southerners refuse to concede that it ever fell.
                    Concede what fell?


                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      I believe there are Southerners to this day who still believe they have a God-given right to secede from the United States.
                      Why not? demi seems to remember secede from UK some time back.
                      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                      Comment


                      • eggs.jpg
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

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                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          It was, of course, the war of Northern Aggression, and we decided enough family blood had been shed, and the North wasn't going to be happy til they "won", so we allowed them to think that.
                          No, it was a war over ending slavery, and the bad guys were beaten into submission.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            No, it was a war over ending slavery, and the bad guys were beaten into submission.
                            States' rights.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Reconstruction was over, that's true - but Southerners HADN'T forgotten - and the hatred of the Republicans ran so deep that it continued until the Civil Rights movement was over.

                              I was THERE.
                              Tea, that's not true, there was a republican party in the south, they weren't as popular as democrats, but they were there long before the civil rights movement ended as shown in your own 1964 CRA voting stats.

                              And you are completely wrong. It DID cause a fracture -
                              Then I'm not completely wrong.

                              but they didn't leave the Democratic party for another twenty years.
                              Who's they. The Dixiecrats couldn't be considered democrats since they split from the democrats and their nominee (Truman) and nominated their own Presidential candidate (Strom Thurmond). And btw, though the Dixiecrats and Strom Thurmond lost the election, they got a substantial portion of the southern vote. Strom Thurmond himself became a republican 16 years later in defiance of Johnsons 1964 signing of the CRA. So to argue that "the south didn't begin revolting against and leaving the democrat party until long after the civil rights movement was over is ridiculous.

                              If these folks are all driven by hate it should be zero.
                              I fail to see how that answers to what I said. The overwhelming majority (95) of southern democrats voted against civil rights. Your argument, that well, (7) southern democrats voted for the CRA therefore............ what?

                              No, you are not understanding just how much the South was STILL affected by the Civil War and Reconstruction 100 years after the fact. Reconstruction did very nasty things - and people did not forget.
                              Again, that doesn't answer to what I said. Regardless of Reconstruction, the reason for the south becoming more republican, was, obviously was, the civil rights stance of the Democrats. I mean, it's history, Tea, look it up.

                              Was there a legitimate alternative that would allow them to get elected?
                              Never said there was an alternative. If the south is racist and you want to get elected, then you must be a racist as well.

                              Both were wrong - and the VRA caused more strife than was remotely necessary.
                              Oh please, the VRA was completely necessary due to southern politicians blocking African Americans from voting, which they are still attempting to do by finding ways around the law.
                              Also, the Democrats were drug kicking and screaming into the Civil Rights Movement - they did NOT want it at first.
                              No kidding, which is why the south, still kicking and screaming, went republican.
                              Last edited by JimL; 08-19-2019, 09:53 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                States' rights.
                                Yeah, and the right the south was fighting for was the right to maintain slavery.

                                States rights was a canard, and everybody knows it!

                                Comment

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