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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    And do you know what "right" it was that the 'states rights south coalition' went to war over. That's right, the right to maintain slavery.
    No, it was the right to secede from the Union - which they had already done. That was spurred by the election of Lincoln because of the probable imbalance of slave/free states if new states were to be allowed in indiscriminately. Yeah, that is because of slavery - but that itself was because of the economic devastation the South anticipated - and later experienced. So ultimately, it's economics.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

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    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Duh, no kidding Sherlock. There were only 11 republicans from the south in all of congress, 126 democrats. The CR legislation was democrat sponsered and nearly all the democrats voted agin! They went strickly against the democratic agenda and began to vote more and more republican from thence forth. Not that the republican party didn't take advantage of the white supremacist split in the democrat south, they capitalized on it.
      No, they didn't - the South remained solidly DEMOCRAT until the 1980's and did not become solidly REPUBLICAN until the 1990's - Civil Rights did NOT cause that shift. Leftist leanings in the Democratic Party itself - largely beginning in the 1980's - did that.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Hey rogue, ya know how many southern republicans, whether in the House or the Senate voted for the CRA or the VRA in 64 and 65, I believe it was a great big 0. Nough said! The rest of your long winded post isn't worth wasting my time on.
        You do remember saying that particular statistics wasn't relevant to the argument - and I actually agreed - don't you?

        0 out of 11 - you seem to miss the important part about how few Republicans were elected in the South at the time.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          You asked, I answered. If you didn't want to know, why did you ask?
          Yes, but you answered my question after reading it out of context which ended up being an answer to a differnt question.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            You do remember saying that particular statistics wasn't relevant to the argument - and I actually agreed - don't you?

            0 out of 11 - you seem to miss the important part about how few Republicans were elected in the South at the time.
            Right, but they, ie the republicans, both office holders and the constituency, surged throughout the south shortly thereafter. And that took place long before the 80's and 90's.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              No, they didn't - the South remained solidly DEMOCRAT until the 1980's and did not become solidly REPUBLICAN until the 1990's - Civil Rights did NOT cause that shift. Leftist leanings in the Democratic Party itself - largely beginning in the 1980's - did that.
              As my dad said - "I didn't leave the Democratic Party -- they left me".
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Yes, but you answered my question after reading it out of context which ended up being an answer to a differnt question.
                Come on, Jim, that NEVER EVER happens on Tweb!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Right, but they, ie the republicans, both office holders and the constituency, surged throughout the south shortly thereafter. And that took place long before the 80's and 90's.
                  No, they did not. The South remained solidly Democrat until the 1980's - and did not become solidly Republican until the 1990's.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    Yes, but you answered my question after reading it out of context which ended up being an answer to a differnt question.
                    No, you specifically asked:

                    Originally posted by JimL
                    And who was threatening to take away their possessions?
                    In direct response to:

                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat
                    Maybe the rich plantation owners, but most of the foot soldiers just wanted to keep their possessions. I HIGHLY recommend you watch Free State of Jones.
                    Which was in response to:
                    Originally posted by JimL
                    Which leaves the ultimate reason being that the south wanted to maintain the slave industry.
                    Which was in response to:

                    Originally posted by Sparko
                    You are both right!

                    The reason there was a war was because part of the USA decided to split off into their own country. The reason for that was to keep slavery.
                    Which was in response to:

                    Originally posted by CowPoke
                    You're CRAZY! It was about STATES RIGHTS and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!!!!!



                    (Jim, this will be one of the very few times that I'm arguing from a sense of duty and frustration, not from fact)
                    And the post that started it was:
                    Originally posted by JimL
                    Yeah, and the right the south was fighting for was the right to maintain slavery.

                    States rights was a canard, and everybody knows it!

                    So the question was asked in context of why the South fought the Civil War - the Southern foot soldiers being more interested in not having all their possessions seized by an occupying army - that would be the context and my answer addresses it as such.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      As my dad said - "I didn't leave the Democratic Party -- they left me".
                      Bill Clinton, back shortly after he left office, is quoted as saying something to the effect of he was being pulled much farther left than he'd ever wanted to go.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        As my dad said - "I didn't leave the Democratic Party -- they left me".
                        Sure, you could put it that way, when the democrat party began to stand up for civil rights they left those behind who continued to stand against them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          Sure, you could put it that way, when the democrat party began to stand up for civil rights they left those behind who continued to stand against them.
                          My Dad put it that way and it had nothing whatsoever to do with your deranged historical revisionism. More recently, many other life-long democrats I know have said the same thing with regard to the Democrat's abandonment of God, and embracing of the culture of death, and of socialism.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Sure, you could put it that way, when the democrat party began to stand up for civil rights they left those behind who continued to stand against them.
                            The Democrat party never left them behind Jimmy, you’re repeating more myths and talking points. Why the South became Republican has to do with shifts in Democrats switching from the party of God and Country to the socialist party. I come from a long line of Democrats that voted democrat because of JFK or Truman. Two people that would never be president in the modern Democrat party. I didn’t leave the Democrats, they left me.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              No, you specifically asked:



                              In direct response to:



                              Which was in response to:


                              Which was in response to:



                              Which was in response to:



                              And the post that started it was:



                              So the question was asked in context of why the South fought the Civil War - the Southern foot soldiers being more interested in not having all their possessions seized by an occupying army - that would be the context and my answer addresses it as such.
                              Jimmy doesn’t get that slavery was a dying institution that likely would have been dead before 1900 in the south, even if the south would have won the civil war.
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                No, they did not. The South remained solidly Democrat until the 1980's - and did not become solidly Republican until the 1990's.
                                Sorry Tea, but you are wrong. The white southern democrats began to revolt in 1948 with the split of the Dixiecrats over civil rights, that revolt culminated in the 60's after Johnsons signing of the CRA and the VRA. Sure, it wasn't a total revolt, and of course African American southerners who were previously republican but blocked from voting, were now able to vote and voted democrat, but the obvious cause for the switch was the democrats stand on civil rights which was of course in direct response to the white supremacist souths oppression of African Americans.

                                Comment

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