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Thread: Will The Global Warming Hysterics Never Tire Of Being Wrong?

  1. #271
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Most of the lithium batteries for cars will be in service for many decades. After they're done being in a car they'll likely be bought up and used for grid storage for a couple of more decades. Right now disposal is the best option because battery technology is undergoing a lot of development. So if you set up a process to recycle one type of battery, it will be useless in a decade.

    I won't underplay that this is problematic. Like with fly ash sludge we'll have to store the spent batteries. However, the footprint will be a lot less so I think it's manageable. At least it shouldn't be criticized harder than the coal industry.
    uh not from what I have read. I read the lifespan of a car's lithium battery is 5 years. and they can't be easily or efficiently recycled. And just producing them is a huge health and environmental problem, and the rare metals needed to make them are in fact, rare and hard to come by, causing a supply shortage when there are millions of cars on the road.


    For one, electric vehicles have a concerning supply chain. Cobalt, a key component of the lithium-ion batteries in electric cars, is linked to reports of child labour. The nickel used in those same batteries is toxic to extract from the ground. And there are environmental concerns and land use conflicts connected with lithium mining in countries like Tibet and Bolivia.

    The elements used in battery production are finite and in limited supply. This makes it impossible to electrify all of the world’s transport with current battery technology. Meanwhile, there is still no environmentally safe way of recycling lithium-ion batteries.

    https://theconversation.com/not-so-f...-its-own-94980


    And while we CAN recycle the batteries, the cost to do so is more than the gain.

    Unlike an old mobile phone, an electric vehicle isn’t something you’re going to put in a drawer and forget about. Electric vehicle batteries are simply too big to be kept at home and can’t be left in a landfill. A smelting process is used to recover many minerals, but it alone can’t recover the precious lithium.

    After a battery is smelted, the lithium ends up as a mixed byproduct and extracting it is costly. The price of fully recycling a lithium-ion battery is falling towards €1 per kg. The problem is, the value of the raw minerals reclaimed from the process is only a third of that.

    https://evrater.com/ev-battery-disposal


    And while we can reuse car batteries in other places like you mentioned, eventually they will need to be disposed of. And the lifespan of the reused batteries isn't decades, it is 7 to 10 years.

  2. Amen Mountain Man, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  3. #272
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    uh not from what I have read. I read the lifespan of a car's lithium battery is 5 years. and they can't be easily or efficiently recycled. And just producing them is a huge health and environmental problem, and the rare metals needed to make them are in fact, rare and hard to come by, causing a supply shortage when there are millions of cars on the road.


    For one, electric vehicles have a concerning supply chain. Cobalt, a key component of the lithium-ion batteries in electric cars, is linked to reports of child labour. The nickel used in those same batteries is toxic to extract from the ground. And there are environmental concerns and land use conflicts connected with lithium mining in countries like Tibet and Bolivia.

    The elements used in battery production are finite and in limited supply. This makes it impossible to electrify all of the world’s transport with current battery technology. Meanwhile, there is still no environmentally safe way of recycling lithium-ion batteries.

    https://theconversation.com/not-so-f...-its-own-94980


    And while we CAN recycle the batteries, the cost to do so is more than the gain.

    Unlike an old mobile phone, an electric vehicle isn’t something you’re going to put in a drawer and forget about. Electric vehicle batteries are simply too big to be kept at home and can’t be left in a landfill. A smelting process is used to recover many minerals, but it alone can’t recover the precious lithium.

    After a battery is smelted, the lithium ends up as a mixed byproduct and extracting it is costly. The price of fully recycling a lithium-ion battery is falling towards €1 per kg. The problem is, the value of the raw minerals reclaimed from the process is only a third of that.

    https://evrater.com/ev-battery-disposal


    And while we can reuse car batteries in other places like you mentioned, eventually they will need to be disposed of. And the lifespan of the reused batteries isn't decades, it is 7 to 10 years.
    Please see my previous post - or do you have me on ignore as well?

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  4. #273
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Please see my previous post - or do you have me on ignore as well?

    Jim
    I amened your post, Jim.

    I hope that technology pans out.

    Especially super capacitors.

  5. #274
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Nah. We've still got a long way to go technologically and culturally. I mean, 15-minutes to get only 3-hours of drive time? Big deal... I can fill up my Toyota Echo in 5-minutes and drive for 20-hours before I need to refuel.

    Electric vehicles will get there eventually, but give it another decade... and watch out for the many unanticipated unintended consequences.
    As far as road trips go with the fam, 15 minutes is about as short a stop as it gets ... and with typically shorter waits between pee stops for youngsters and the ladies, 3 hours is about as long as it gets between stops. So there you go.

    A decade is not an unrealistic time frame to see electrics take over. But I think most of the inconvenience associated with them now will be gone in 3 maybe 4 years. Then it takes time for people to realize the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Tesla's are really nice cars, and they are a lot of fun to drive. Electrics go when you tell them to, and they can do it quickly. Not so much like a prius anymore. 7 second 0 to 60 is ho hum common even for the hybrids, with the pure electrics closer to 5 (and the Tesla S just flat out is unsafe in it's fastest mode). They don't need oil changes or tune-ups. They don't have the headaches associated with a typical transmission. The have a lot fewer moving parts. I think they are the future for personal transportation. And the Tesla truck - 7% grade at 65, car like acceleration fully loaded. Range is a problem (550 miles), but for short haul they beat a diesel on life of the vehicle cost.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  6. #275
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    The latest technologies for Tesla batteries show significantly increased lifespan.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16...-500000-miles/

    And as the technology improves, it will only get better.

    https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla...les-elon-musk/

    If supercapacitors can rise to the challange then there is an even better outlook as they charge nearly instantly and have little to no degradation in charge capacity over time. Though Telsa's advances in charging technology and battery technology may make that difference unimportant as well.

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/18/te...ehicles-a-day/

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/6/18...specs-location

    Think about it - with batteries that last 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles and that can charge 3 hours of drive time in the typical gasoline fill-up time frame, the electric car can easily become far more economical over a person's life time than a gasoline car. Given the lack of deterioration of electric motors and cars in general, and the fact the batteries cost significantly less than a new car, People could expect to 'refurbish' their cars after 10 to 15 years at 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a similar new car and keep them virtually forever.

    Electric cars are cleaner, faster, more efficient, cheaper to 'fuel', more convenient for daily activities (most of the time you charge them at home) more technologically savvy (smarter).

    Already.

    And that is because of the vision of one man over a decade. Think what the situation will be a decade from now after the Honda's and the Ford's of the world add their expertise and $$$ to the problem.

    Jim
    This is good stuff, Jim. I haven't looked into energy efficiency or cost to fuel of electric cars lately. You still seem to be banking on future projections for some of this stuff; 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes is still a far cry from gasoline fill-up time frame (which will get me about 500 miles, give or take). It appears that it's not yet economically feasible for me to switch to electric ( can't afford a new Tesla), but it may get there.
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  7. #276
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    As far as road trips go with the fam, 15 minutes is about as short a stop as it gets ... and with typically shorter waits between pee stops for youngsters and the ladies, 3 hours is about as long as it gets between stops. So there you go.

    A decade is not an unrealistic time frame to see electrics take over. But I think most of the inconvenience associated with them now will be gone in 3 maybe 4 years. Then it takes time for people to realize the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Tesla's are really nice cars, and they are a lot of fun to drive. Electrics go when you tell them to, and they can do it quickly. Not so much like a prius anymore. 7 second 0 to 60 is ho hum common even for the hybrids, with the pure electrics closer to 5 (and the Tesla S just flat out is unsafe in it's fastest mode). They don't need oil changes or tune-ups. They don't have the headaches associated with a typical transmission. The have a lot fewer moving parts. I think they are the future for personal transportation. And the Tesla truck - 7% grade at 65, car like acceleration fully loaded. Range is a problem (550 miles), but for short haul they beat a diesel on life of the vehicle cost.

    Jim
    I would love to own an electric car. The only things holding me back:

    1. The cost - needs to be same as a gas car
    2. The range - 300-400 mile would be good.
    3. The charge time. OK to charge at home for urban use, but you need a fast charge time for road trip use. 10 min or less for a full charge.
    4. Needs more charging stations

    And if you are right, these will be solved soon. I think if that is the case, electric cars will replace gas cars easily. This is what I have been saying, make something better and people will buy it. But if you try to force or regulate the change, you just end up ticking everyone off.

  8. Amen One Bad Pig, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  9. #277
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I would love to own an electric car. The only things holding me back:

    1. The cost - needs to be same as a gas car
    2. The range - 300-400 mile would be good.
    3. The charge time. OK to charge at home for urban use, but you need a fast charge time for road trip use. 10 min or less for a full charge.
    4. Needs more charging stations

    And if you are right, these will be solved soon. I think if that is the case, electric cars will replace gas cars easily. This is what I have been saying, make something better and people will buy it. But if you try to force or regulate the change, you just end up ticking everyone off.

    An electric car would make sense for someone like me who now rarely travels more than 15 miles, if that. Charging stations are non-issues for me at the moment. The problem is that by the time most people have no need to do a lot of daily travel, they are on a fixed income. A new gas car is no longer a good option - a new electric is simply far too expensive. A used electric has little reliability history so for now, that too, is not a good option. I might get a used hybrid - the third gen Prius has a good reputation. But I'm far more likely to get a used Corolla - affordable and reliable as all get out.


  10. #278
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    What Trump says is meaningless, we are building renewables at a very rapid rate.


    No thanks to the man with the power. "The Trump administration has gutted environmental and public land protections".
    .
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...ections-2019-5
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  11. #279
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Good the hypocrites are outed.

    ECO-WARRIOR royals Harry and Meghan left a huge carbon footprint when they took a private jet to the South of France two days after their flight to Ibiza.

    The trip to Nice created seven times more carbon emissions per person than a commercial flight.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/974437...riviera-ibiza/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  12. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  13. #280
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Yeah, FIRST you do without your jet - THEN talk to me about my car.

  14. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.

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