The Death Of Plastic Bags...

[Teallaura]

I have a habit of grabbing 6-7 plastic bags at once when unloading my car and I thus tend to break them. Cloth bags save me from myself.

They make handles that will actually let you carry that many. I used to love mine - nowadays, I just use a cart from the carport to the house.

[mossrose]

I hate reusable bags - for shopping. I use them for other things - they are nifty totes - but they aren't easy to clean and they are a nuisance to the cashier. Besides, I use the 'disposable ones until they are well and truly used up. Great for instant gloves when you have to pick up something icky - or to stuff a wet paint brush in 'til after lunch (why waste a zip bag?) and dozens of other uses! Heck, I've even used them as outer gloves to protect my good gardening gloves while handling mud and muck.

I use bags from our local grocery store which are quite sturdy and easy to clean. And I do reuse clean produce and bread bags for other things, and often as "gloves" when handling messy stuff.

We spent years looking for ways to reuse the things - now, as they are phased out, people will use other types of plastic for the same purposes - zip lock and trash bags being the most likely. If you end up with more trash bags and zip lock bags - both of which degrade much slower than grocery bags - how is this a win?

I agree. It just makes the same problems with different products.

[Adrift]

Huh, I just passed city inmates doing road clean up here. Sure, you see the occasional item but our towns and roads aren't like that - both because most folks don't throw stuff out like that and because we have a lot of different clean up efforts.

I haven't lived in a town yet that didn't have trash all over the streets. It doesn't have to be in plain view like 75 up through Michigan or nothing, but I think Americans get desensitized to how bad the issue really is. I got MAJOR culture shock living in Germany where the streets are so clean you could practically eat off them in most cities and towns, and recycling in that country is like a religion. I remember coming home to the US, and the first thing I noticed was the litter everywhere. We just don't see it because we live in it.

You've never priced bags in bulk, have you? Bags that were free are now an additional cost.

Also, making happy archaeologists isn't exactly a bad thing...


I have no issue with switching to (better) biodegradable plastics (no, plastic isn't eternal - unless you bury it) but that still leaves the existing stuff. What I'd like to see are studies of what we can make out of this - will it work as filler in construction projects? Aid in drainage in place of gravel? If we're going to bury it anyway, why not bury it where we need filler? But that's hardly the only post use application - just one that doesn't require impractical levels of sorting.

No, I can't say I've ever priced bags in bulk, but then, churches have fed the needy for centuries before the advent of plastic. I'm sure alternative methods can be developed in the absence of plastic bags. And of course I was using a bit of hyperbole when I said that plastic bags are near eternal. As we all know, plastic simply does not break down very well. At least, not as well as many organic materials. Unfortunately our consumerist culture trades convenience for our environment and health. I'm all for ways of helping society become better stewards of their environments.

[KingsGambit]

I haven't lived in a town yet that didn't have trash all over the streets. It doesn't have to be in plain view like 75 up through Michigan or nothing, but I think Americans get desensitized to how bad the issue really is. I got MAJOR culture shock living in Germany where the streets are so clean you could practically eat off them in most cities and towns, and recycling in that country is like a religion. I remember coming home to the US, and the first thing I noticed was the litter everywhere. We just don't see it because we live in it.



No, I can't say I've ever priced bags in bulk, but then, churches have fed the needy for centuries before the advent of plastic. I'm sure alternative methods can be developed in the absence of plastic bags. And of course I was using a bit of hyperbole when I said that plastic bags are near eternal. As we all know, plastic simply does not break down very well. At least, not as well as many organic materials. Unfortunately our consumerist culture trades convenience for our environment and health. I'm all for ways of helping society become better stewards of their environments.

That and I'd be surprised if other countries have the active cultural hostility to recycling that seems to exist in some quarters in the US.

[Adrift]

I hate reusable bags - for shopping. I use them for other things - they are nifty totes - but they aren't easy to clean and they are a nuisance to the cashier. Besides, I use the 'disposable ones until they are well and truly used up. Great for instant gloves when you have to pick up something icky - or to stuff a wet paint brush in 'til after lunch (why waste a zip bag?) and dozens of other uses! Heck, I've even used them as outer gloves to protect my good gardening gloves while handling mud and muck.

We spent years looking for ways to reuse the things - now, as they are phased out, people will use other types of plastic for the same purposes - zip lock and trash bags being the most likely. If you end up with more trash bags and zip lock bags - both of which degrade much slower than grocery bags - how is this a win?

I can't imagine the use in other types of plastics increasing so dramatically that it'd seriously compete with grocery store bags in the amount of non-biodegradable waste that we accumulate. That seems unrealistic to me. I'm not saying people don't use grocery store bags for other things, but in my experience most people throw most of them out when they get home. I mean, I keep a few in a drawer for the bathroom trash, but I throw away most of the ones I don't use. Perhaps a 5 year study could be performed to calculate the real cost in waste reduction pre-plastic grocery bags, and post-plastic grocery bags.

[Adrift]

That and I'd be surprised if other countries have the active cultural hostility to recycling that seems to exist in some quarters in the US.

Yeah, that is definitely sad. There is definitely a part of society where some people take pride in their pollution, and resist efforts to curb it as though doing so would sissify them or something. I live near an automotive tech school, and the amount of kids I see driving around here who take pleasure in "rolling coal" at cars behind them, and think absolutely nothing of throwing garbage out their windows is really depressing. Same types often have stickers on their bumpers and back windows that talk about giving the finger to tree-huggers and whatnot.

[rogue06]

That and I'd be surprised if other countries have the active cultural hostility to recycling that seems to exist in some quarters in the US.

Penn and Teller, in their cable series "B.S.", had an episode on recycling where they showed how folks would still readily comply no matter how ridiculous and asinine the rules for it were.

[Christian3]

OK, my state has passed a law where they will charge 10 cents to use/buy a plastic bag when shopping. Then in a year they will not be available at all. Neither will paper bags bags BTW. Now I'm conflicted - I have been using cloth reusable bags for a while now but I don't like being force to by law. It gets my back up...

I think the motive is to help the planet.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

[seer]

I think the motive is to help the planet.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

We are not going to save the planet, the planet like the universe is slated for death.

[Adrift]

Penn and Teller, in their cable series "B.S.", had an episode on recycling where they showed how folks would still readily comply no matter how ridiculous and asinine the rules for it were.

If I recall, a lot of BS was, well...I guess it's right there in the name of the show. A number of "facts" that Penn and Teller launched into on their show were either decontexulized, twisted to make it say what they wanted, overstated, or out and out wrong. And remember, these are the same guys who did BS episodes "debunking" the Bible, expressing their "factual" opinion that you can't derive morality from Christianity, that miracles don't exist, taking the Hitchen's approach to Mother Teresa, arguing that prostitution is okay and should be legal, that porn is healthy, and all number of goofy things. And for the record, the recycling episode is one that Teller has stated in later interviews is among his least favorite episodes, since they did it in a rush, and he's sort of backed away from his previous stance.

[Adrift]

We are not going to save the planet, the planet like the universe is slated for death.

I often see this meme from atheists that Christians don't care about their environment exactly because of this attitude. This is the first time I've actually seen a Christian say this. This is a very sad position to hold. Very irresponsible.

[Zara]

I often see this meme from atheists that Christians don't care about their environment exactly because of this attitude. This is the first time I've actually seen a Christian say this. This is a very sad position to hold. Very irresponsible.

It's beyond the pale pathetic. It shows that, at his core, he's a nihilist and that the quote in his signature, applies to him more than anything else. Also, hell is where he's destined if there is such a place.

[seer]

I often see this meme from atheists that Christians don't care about their environment exactly because of this attitude. This is the first time I've actually seen a Christian say this. This is a very sad position to hold. Very irresponsible.

Did I say that we shouldn't be good stewards? I'm making a factual claim. But, the earth and all its works will pass away, it is the human soul that is immortal, and therefore infinitely more important...

[Adrift]

It's beyond the pale pathetic. It shows that, at his core, he's a nihilist and that the quote in his signature, applies to him more than anything else. Also, hell is where he's destined if there is such a place.

No, seer isn't going to hell, and I think his signature accurately reflects the views of someone like, say, Sartre, but I do recognize the irony in holding that position about the atheist worldview, and also suggesting that the planet is slated for death, when Christianity tells us that instead it is slated for rebirth. He needs to read N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope.

[Sparko]

That and I'd be surprised if other countries have the active cultural hostility to recycling that seems to exist in some quarters in the US.

Well in Germany, its the law. And they have 4 different bins they have to use. Paper, Glass, Plastic and everything else. And they gripe about it too. It's a real pain.

Yes, in general they are more clean and don't toss trash on the streets to begin with.