Mass Shooting El Paso...

[Charles]

So when the shooter stands trial, and his lawyer offers as his defense "Donald Trump made him do it", he'd be laughed out of the court room.

That's how silly your blame game is.

Focusing on the real deal:

Just as the killer is responsible for his own actions, Trump is responsible for his ongoing incitement of racism and xenophobia. It is long past time for Americans to hold Trump accountable. Trump’s rhetoric, fitting what some researchers call “stochastic terrorism”, has emboldened white supremacists to violence.

Promoting violence has long been part of Trump’s brand identity. At rallies, he tells his fans to “get rid” of protesters, to “knock the crap out of them”, and promises to pay their legal fees. He has complained that “nobody wants to hurt anybody any more” and gets his fans in the mood to hurt others. Trump fans love that he set policy to block immigration from what he deems “shithole countries”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...g-speech-words

[Tassman]

Again your constantly parroting the fact that both Trump and the shooter used the word "invasion" is no different than the guy who kept insisting that Darwin influenced Hitler because both used the word "struggle" in the title of their books.

Yes, it is different. If you insist on repeating this ridiculous analogy rather than addressing the issue, I will merely repeat my response to it.

The shooter used “invasion” in his manifesto as the motivating factor for his shooting spree and Trump repeatedly claimed the US is under “invasion” by Hispanic migrants and asylum-seekers from Central America. In short, the shooter appears to have been driven by a racist conspiracy theory, which has been repeated again and again on Fox News broadcasts and amplified by that network’s most powerful viewer, President Donald Trump.

[Charles]

So yes some of them ARE killers just as Trump stated.

Some Americans living in Europe are killers. That does not cause us to refer to Americans as killers. I note that you put more emphasis on "ARE" than "some" after mentioning a single example. Seems you lost track of balance.

[Cow Poke]

Focusing on the real deal:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...g-speech-words

You mean somebody else's opinion.

[Charles]

You mean somebody else's opinion.

Oh, yeah, how foolish to care about someone else's opinion when you go to a forum to discuss...

[firstfloor]

Lawfare has a very interesting interview with Mary Ann Glendon on the subject of Unalienable Rights.

[Cow Poke]

Oh, yeah, how foolish to care about someone else's opinion when you go to a forum to discuss...

I'm more concerned with fact, Charles. Opinions are like armpits.... And it's not at all difficult in this day and age to find somebody's opinion who agrees with yours.

[Charles]

I'm more concerned with fact, Charles. Opinions are like armpits.... And it's not at all difficult in this day and age to find somebody's opinion who agrees with yours.

But if anyone was to ask whether Trump bears some kind of responsibility, then what are the facts? And is your "being more concerned with facts" also not just an opinion on how discussions are solved?

[Cow Poke]

But if anyone was to ask whether Trump bears some kind of responsibility, then what are the facts?

I would not argue with "some kind of responsibility" - I think he needs to be FAR less jerk-ish, but the FACT is that the shooter will answer for his OWN deeds, and "but TRUMP MADE ME" is just idiotic.

And is your "being more concerned with facts" also not just an opinion on how discussions are solved?

Wow. You're unusually desperate for a meaningless battle this morning.

[Charles]

I would not argue with "some kind of responsibility" - I think he needs to be FAR less jerk-ish, but the FACT is that the shooter will answer for his OWN deeds, and "but TRUMP MADE ME" is just idiotic.

I think we agree to some extent. Legally speaking, the shooter will answer for his own deeds. Trump needs to be far les jerk-ish, yes. You have just repeated the points in the post that was just someone else's opinion. I agree with you though it is just your opinion.

Wow. You're unusually desperate for a meaningless battle this morning.

Why do you think so?

[Cow Poke]

I think we agree to some extent. Legally speaking, the shooter will answer for his own deeds. Trump needs to be far les jerk-ish, yes. You have just repeated the points in the post that was just someone else's opinion. I agree with you though it is just your opinion.

No, Charles - I cited my own opinion, which didn't get NEAR as close to your link.

Why do you think so?

Because it's true.

[Mountain Man]

Wow. You're unusually desperate for a meaningless battle this morning.

I suspect he's frustrated because nobody really takes him seriously.

[rogue06]

Yes, it is different. If you insist on repeating this ridiculous analogy rather than addressing the issue, I will merely repeat my response to it.

The shooter used “invasion” in his manifesto as the motivating factor for his shooting spree and Trump repeatedly claimed the US is under “invasion” by Hispanic migrants and asylum-seekers from Central America. In short, the shooter appears to have been driven by a racist conspiracy theory, which has been repeated again and again on Fox News broadcasts and amplified by that network’s most powerful viewer, President Donald Trump.

Do you actively try to be wrong or does it just come naturally?

First, simply declaring that the comparison I gave is different does not suffice. You need to show how they are different not dismiss it because you don't like it or can't rebut it (or likely both).

Second, as the shooter made clear, the motivating factor was his eco-fascism, namely a belief that we need to winnow the human population down. This is an attitude often expressed for many years now by leftist eco radicals and it is linked with racist outlooks on more than one occasion.

While he may have used a word that Trump has used (invasion), leftists aren't exactly known for taking their cue from Trump^[1]. In fact, according to his manifesto (which never once mentions Trump) his influences are the New Zealand killer who is a self-described eco-fascist and Dr. Seuss's environmentalist fable The Lorax.

It was his wacko left wing environmentalist beliefs (a need to eliminate what he sees as surplus people) that motivated him. It was his racism that caused him to select Hispanics.

Third, the fact is that the actions of many of those entering the country illegally are those of invaders. As I previously noted:

And btw, what would you call folks who storm border crossings injuring several border agents and force the entry point to be closed by their actions (like what recently happened at the Pharr International Bridge in Texas)?

What do you call people who storm the border throwing rocks and bottles forcing the border agents to fend them off with tear gas and pepper spray (and this happened 126 times when the Obamessiah graced the White House with his presence)?

What do you call people who after forcing their way in celebrate by raising flags from the country they're from?

If it looks like an invader and acts like an invader it is almost certainly an invader.

Let's see if this time you can actually address the above with more than a snide comment, although I seriously doubt you have the ability to do so.





1. Calling for "free" health care and a universal basic income, which he included in his manifesto, is hardly an earmark of a Trump supporter or a conservative. They are favorite positions of those on the far left.

[rogue06]

I suspect he's frustrated because nobody really takes him seriously.

Maybe he locked himself out of the car and can't find the keys?

[rogue06]

Some Americans living in Europe are killers. That does not cause us to refer to Americans as killers. I note that you put more emphasis on "ARE" than "some" after mentioning a single example. Seems you lost track of balance.

Care to wager whether I can provide a very long list of examples?