Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Am I Over Reacting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    The church I used to attend always seemed to have some popular book study going on. I went to a couple but the one that really irked me was Blackaby's Experiencing God.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      And, by the way....

      If you're looking for the perfect church, and you find it - don't join it, cause you'll ruin it.
      Or like the other joke:

      "Churches are filled with nothing but liars and hypocrites!"
      "In that case, you'll fit right in."

      I expect there to be flawed people in any church congregation. Heck, I'm one of them. So that doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if the church leadership started preaching away from the Bible, or even worse, contrary to the Bible. In that case, I would feel compelled to find a new church, and I would let the church leadership know why.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
        For books if you mean authors like Lacado, Yancy, any televangelist, I agree. If they aren't boring, they're light weight.

        When I wrote the OP, I was thinking of authors I read like CS Lewis, AW Tozer, or that book of Spurgeon sermons I've been wanting to read.
        I've been edified by some of Yancey's works. They're lightweight compared to, say, James Dunn, but I don't expect every believer to be able to plow through one of his tomes.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          Looking for a better church? Or is there a way to improve things? A spiritual defibrillator?
          I don't think there is a way I can change things short of provoking a church fight. It's too engrained in its habits. I think it's going to take a major crisis before they are forced to change or they go under. I'm putting it into God's in-box and taking my hands off.

          I'm not looking for a better church. I'm looking for a different church - one that more Bible centered than this one.
          Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 08-09-2019, 01:26 PM.
          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            I know. I was wondering if there was anything he could do to help things. Dying churches are awful.
            I tried starting a men's Bible study. When The Story​ came along, the senior pastor jammed in down the group's throat.
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              I tried starting a men's Bible study. When The Story​ came along, the senior pastor jammed in down the group's throat.
              I think my original church had all the churches do that with the same book after I left.

              Though to be fair, they also went through David Platt's Radical, which I think people here would find much less objectionable.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I think my original church had all the churches do that with the same book after I left.

                Though to be fair, they also went through David Platt's Radical, which I think people here would find much less objectionable.
                The only objection thus far is that it isn't challenging enough.

                We do a really lousy job of matching material to level - part of the blame lies with the haphazard and second thought nature of how most churches do education.

                After all, when was the last time you were in a Bible study that only used the Bible? It's not just the congregations that get attached to crutches.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  After all, when was the last time you were in a Bible study that only used the Bible? It's not just the congregations that get attached to crutches.
                  1993 to present
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    The only objection thus far is that it isn't challenging enough.

                    We do a really lousy job of matching material to level - part of the blame lies with the haphazard and second thought nature of how most churches do education.

                    After all, when was the last time you were in a Bible study that only used the Bible? It's not just the congregations that get attached to crutches.
                    I don't think using other materials (like commentaries) is a "crutch" so much as a tool, ideally of course. To use an extreme example, studying Leviticus and refusing to use anything but the Bible alone is going to cause modern readers to miss a lot.

                    Of course you still need to read the text itself...
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      I don't think using other materials (like commentaries) is a "crutch" so much as a tool, ideally of course. To use an extreme example, studying Leviticus and refusing to use anything but the Bible alone is going to cause modern readers to miss a lot.

                      Of course you still need to read the text itself...
                      You can use it as a tool or a crutch - and entirely too often it's used as the latter.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Hey, if it was good enough for Jesus and Apostles, it's good enough for me!
                        I was gonna quip about it being the Bible Paul carried, but I thought better of it.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Federalist.

                        Nationalist Christian.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                        Justice for Matthew Perna!

                        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          I've never read Tozer but I read JP Holding's scathing critique, which has been enough to keep me away.
                          Can you point me to more info on this? I never read much Tozer, but back in the day, I was a C&MA guy, and I recall he was big with them.
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Federalist.

                          Nationalist Christian.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                          Justice for Matthew Perna!

                          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            The only objection thus far is that it isn't challenging enough.

                            We do a really lousy job of matching material to level - part of the blame lies with the haphazard and second thought nature of how most churches do education.

                            After all, when was the last time you were in a Bible study that only used the Bible? It's not just the congregations that get attached to crutches.
                            I have been struggling with Christian education for awhile. I almost started a thread on this.

                            Churches seem to divide education into 3 levels: kids, teens, adults. Kids do fine because there is a lot of age specific curriculum. Teens generally do good as they usually are the group that gets the most attention in a church (youth group, the junior pastor is generally assigned to them, etc.) The problem is adults.

                            Adults are a broad group of age and experiences and needs. Usually the seniors get some extra attention through a senior's ministries. Parents may get some extra support through through the youth ministries. Everyone else is left to struggle in a one size fits all adult education program.

                            I don't know what the answer is. In a smaller church, there may not be much to be done. I would think a larger church would be able to run multiple tracks. I know this can be covered in church groups. Unfortunately, these depend on the quality of the leadership. They can also be pulled down if the pastor decides all groups will cover the same material at the same time. That may be the biggest hinderance on church education right now. It certainly is easiest to pick a program and assign it to everyone than try to pick and run say 5 different programs for different needs. This goes back to "the haphazard and second thought nature of how most churches do education."

                            I'll just myself out for an example. I've been through multiple love your neighbor, control your emotions, manage your finances programs, etc. While a refresher never hurts, it's not ground I want to cover again or for very long. I know it and I practice it.

                            Where I'm at is I'm about 18 months away from reaching the same age as my father when he died at less than 60 years old. I am conscious (maybe too conscious?) that my pilgrimage on this earth is beginning to draw to a close. I want teaching and be with people who want to draw nearer to God (I'm going to be spending eternity with Him; I ought to get to know Him better) and who want their life end well (both the earthly affairs and making Peace with God). Its just something I can't find so maybe I'm letting my agenda drive my expectations too much.
                            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                              Can you point me to more info on this? I never read much Tozer, but back in the day, I was a C&MA guy, and I recall he was big with them.
                              I like to see the more info too. I went to Tektonics but couldn't find the article mentioned.
                              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                                I have been struggling with Christian education for awhile. I almost started a thread on this.

                                Churches seem to divide education into 3 levels: kids, teens, adults. Kids do fine because there is a lot of age specific curriculum. Teens generally do good as they usually are the group that gets the most attention in a church (youth group, the junior pastor is generally assigned to them, etc.) The problem is adults.

                                Adults are a broad group of age and experiences and needs. Usually the seniors get some extra attention through a senior's ministries. Parents may get some extra support through through the youth ministries. Everyone else is left to struggle in a one size fits all adult education program.

                                I don't know what the answer is. In a smaller church, there may not be much to be done. I would think a larger church would be able to run multiple tracks. I know this can be covered in church groups. Unfortunately, these depend on the quality of the leadership. They can also be pulled down if the pastor decides all groups will cover the same material at the same time. That may be the biggest hinderance on church education right now. It certainly is easiest to pick a program and assign it to everyone than try to pick and run say 5 different programs for different needs. This goes back to "the haphazard and second thought nature of how most churches do education."

                                I'll just myself out for an example. I've been through multiple love your neighbor, control your emotions, manage your finances programs, etc. While a refresher never hurts, it's not ground I want to cover again or for very long. I know it and I practice it.

                                Where I'm at is I'm about 18 months away from reaching the same age as my father when he died at less than 60 years old. I am conscious (maybe too conscious?) that my pilgrimage on this earth is beginning to draw to a close. I want teaching and be with people who want to draw nearer to God (I'm going to be spending eternity with Him; I ought to get to know Him better) and who want their life end well (both the earthly affairs and making Peace with God). Its just something I can't find so maybe I'm letting my agenda drive my expectations too much.
                                Christian education is a passion of mine - it's ridiculous that the church, which pioneered education, cannot educate its own.

                                I disagree about the kids - I've taught children's Sunday School and the materials are a joke. Ditto teens. And don't get me started on adult classes that use beginner Christian materials - FOR DECADES!!!!!

                                This is such a MAJOR opportunity and we're wasting it. Even small churches have resources they don't use - and I see nothing preventing us from working cooperatively. Imagine if we start really teaching - and expecting students of all ages to learn - and get good at it. Imagine the outreach we could do to the community - tutoring and teaching - and sharing the Gospel. We have enormous physical resources - buildings we leave empty six days a week.

                                Day cares are a decent start - but we can do so much more!

                                But first, we have to clean our own house. Biblical illiteracy among Christians is a complete disgrace - forget diving deep, at this point we just need to get most folks to simply conversant.

                                And first of all, we have to convince people that Sunday School is first and foremost a SCHOOL. A place of learning - where achievement is EXPECTED.

                                And rewarded - taking classes for forty years should result in a certificate or two at the very least.

                                Humans are goal oriented - so let's give 'em some more goals!



                                Er, I'm preaching again, huh?

                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Thoughtful Monk, 03-15-2024, 06:19 PM
                                35 responses
                                166 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by KingsGambit, 03-15-2024, 02:12 PM
                                4 responses
                                49 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Thoughtful Monk  
                                Started by Chaotic Void, 03-08-2024, 07:36 AM
                                10 responses
                                119 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post mikewhitney  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-29-2024, 07:55 AM
                                14 responses
                                71 views
                                3 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-28-2024, 11:56 AM
                                13 responses
                                59 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X