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Thread: Epstein Found Dead In Cell...

  1. #421
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    This is truly a momentous occasion in Tweb history.

    Truly! Progs from Krugman to JimL stop parrot of Fake News for one yuge moment, went off reservation. Really yuge, there is hope!
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  2. #422
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Even if blocked from accessing crucial material the very fact of such a blockage is telling in and of itself and may provoke demands for broader investigation.
    So, let's cut to the chase -- what do you think happened?
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  3. #423
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, let's cut to the chase -- what do you think happened?
    It's hard to say, there are so many strange details that don't add up. The coroner says suicide, but we don't have the evidence upon which the coroner made that determination. Why not? Is it true that Epstein said that it was not a suicide attempt, that he was attacked the first time he was found unconscious? Why was such an important prisoner taken off of suicide watch. Why was he left in a cell by himself when it was required that he have a cell mate? Why did he have access to sheets strong enough to hang himself with. He could have been hanged without doing it himself, ya know! Perhaps the reason that particular bone in his neck was broken was because he didn't do the hanging himself. And why were the guards conveniently sleeping while the death took place. Were the camera's on and if so what do they show? I haven't heard answers to any of these things. Why not?

    So it's difficult for any of us to make an actual determination based on the info that the public has access to, all we really have is the coroners "hesitant" say so!

  4. #424
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It's hard to say, there are so many strange details that don't add up. The coroner says suicide, but we don't have the evidence upon which the coroner made that determination. Why not? Is it true that Epstein said that it was not a suicide attempt, that he was attacked the first time he was found unconscious? Why was such an important prisoner taken off of suicide watch. Why was he left in a cell by himself when it was required that he have a cell mate? Why did he have access to sheets strong enough to hang himself with. He could have been hanged without doing it himself, ya know! Perhaps the reason that particular bone in his neck was broken was because he didn't do the hanging himself. And why were the guards conveniently sleeping while the death took place. Were the camera's on and if so what do they show? I haven't heard answers to any of these things. Why not?

    So it's difficult for any of us to make an actual determination based on the info that the public has access to, all we really have is the coroners "hesitant" say so!
    Many of those questions can be answered pretty easily - the prison was, apparently, quite lax in following its own protocols, and much has been said about the incompetence of the guards.

    Dr. Michael Baden is a pathologist who was hired by Epstein's representatives to observe the autopsy, and he's been pretty quiet. If there were news, I'm sure he'd be touting it.
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 08-18-2019 at 08:16 AM.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  5. #425
    42nd Mojave Year DesertBerean's Avatar
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    Whatever the findings are, there are some individuals not resting easy on their beds. His exposure is making them very vulnerable and I wouldn't be surprised to see massive legal maneuvers over the sealed documents.

  6. #426
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    This might be a good way to get an independent perspective of the investigation, but I'm wondering how much power they have -- do they have access to the investigative documentation, can they view the video footage, interview the staff, examine the cell, etc?
    Guess this pretty much answers my question...

    Attorneys Martin Weinberg, Reid Weingarten and Michael Miller said in a statement that it is "indisputable that the authorities violated their own protocols" at the federal lockup.

    They say they'll conduct their own probe and get court help, if necessary, to see "pivotal videos."
    I would imagine video footage is pretty much the be-all/end-all proof of homicide or not (of course, others might dispute that since I don't have any personal experience and am basing this just on common sense), so if there's any indication of tampering or denial of this footage, the attorneys will make a public stink about it.

    I also found this interesting...

    A Justice Department official says people including jail staff members believed to have information pertinent to the probe into financier Jeffrey Epstein's death are not cooperating with investigators.

    The official says the people have not yet been interviewed by the FBI and that their lack of cooperation is a challenge as investigators works to try to determine the full circumstances surrounding Epstein's suicide.

    The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

    The official says the FBI has repeatedly sought interviews with some staff members but those interviews are being delayed by union representatives.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Many of those questions can be answered pretty easily - the prison was, apparently, quite lax in following its own protocols, and much has been said about the incompetence of the guards.
    That doesn't easily, or at all, answer the questions I posed. Where is all the evidence? All we have is the coroners determination, his analysis of the evidence, i.e. that it was suicide by hanging. Perhaps it was death by hanging, but that in itself doesn't prove suicide. Who made the decision to take him off suicide watch? And why? Who made the decision to leave him in a cell by himself? And why? Why were there sheets capable of being utilized for hanging? Were the camera's on and where are the videos? Why was his cell mate moved, and what does he have to say about the first suicide attempt? He was there! It's too easy to just pass it all off to lax protocol when you have a prisoner of this importance.
    Dr. Michael Baden is a pathologist who was hired by Epstein's representatives to observe the autopsy, and he's been pretty quiet. If there were news, I'm sure he'd be touting it.
    Epsteins representatives, his lawyers, from what I have heard, have not been quiet at all and want a full investigation of these questions. Why did Baden say he needed more time, what was he looking at that he wasn't sure of?

    I'm not saying he didn't commit suicide, but I'm not going to simply take the coroners word for it absent so much of the evidence.
    Last edited by JimL; 08-18-2019 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #428
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    That doesn't easily, or at all, answer the questions I posed.
    Because it appears you just throw a bunch of questions out there, none of which seem particularly problematic.

    Where is all the evidence?
    Why, all of a sudden, are we in a place where we can't accept official rulings - that somehow, a whole 'nuther group needs to take all the underlying evidence and do their own analysis?

    All we have is the coroners determination, his analysis of the evidence, i.e. that it was suicide by hanging.
    And Epstein's own team had their own fully qualified autopsy expert to observe --- what do you think he missed?

    Perhaps it was death by hanging, but that in itself doesn't prove suicide. Who made the decision to take him off suicide watch? And why? Who made the decision to leave him in a cell by himself? And why? Why were there sheets capable of being utilized for hanging? Were the camera's on and where are the videos? Why was his cell mate moved, and what does he have to say about the first suicide attempt? He was there! It's too easy to just pass it all off to lax protocol when you have a prisoner of this importance.
    He was no longer on suicide watch, according to reports - that's pretty standard after "intake" unless there's a reason to do otherwise. There appears to be a history of gross negligence at this prison.

    Epsteins representatives, his lawyers, from what I have heard, have not been quiet at all and want a full investigation of these questions. Why did Baden say he needed more time, what was he looking at that he wasn't sure of?
    Do you really think that Baden, a fully qualified medical examiner himself, -- if he was opposed to the findings of the medical doctor in charge, that he wouldn't say something?

    I'm not saying he didn't commit suicide, but I'm not going to simply take the coroners word for it absent so much of the evidence.
    That's where we differ. I think you're inclined to see some kind of conspiracy. I'm the other way - lacking evidence that something's wrong, I have no reason to refuse the facts as presented.
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  9. #429
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    I think, for some of these conspiracy theories to flourish, there has to be a sense that a guest coroner is an adversary in an autopsy.

    I have attended MANY autopsies where there was a guest coroner representing the family of the deceased, or somebody else who believed they had a vested interest in the results, and maybe didn't trust the system.

    I have NEVER seen an atmosphere in autopsy where the medical examiners were in any way adversarial. They were interested in the truth, and often one of them would suggest checking out a particular theory or idea, and the person performing the autopsy would do everything to be transparent. There's an atmosphere of professionalism and cooperation. A sense of professional courtesy.

    To my knowledge, Dr Baden has never expressed any concern about a lack of cooperation during the autopsy, and has not challenged the findings.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. #430
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Why, all of a sudden, are we in a place where we can't accept official rulings - that somehow, a whole 'nuther group needs to take all the underlying evidence and do their own analysis?
    Not sudden. Cos Trump faction is in destroy-or-be-destroyed war with Deep State, anything goes.

    And Epstein's own team had their own fully qualified autopsy expert to observe --- what do you think he missed?
    He saw only medical evidence, not conclusive on own?
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

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