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Thread: Epstein Found Dead In Cell...

  1. #441
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It's hard to say, there are so many strange details that don't add up. The coroner says suicide, but we don't have the evidence upon which the coroner made that determination. Why not?
    Because this information is not generally public domain, and law enforcement agencies aren't going to unnecessary spill the beans during an active investigation, no matter how curious or upset you are. Their job is the investigate the issue at hand, not coddle the public.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  2. Amen Cow Poke, DesertBerean amen'd this post.
  3. #442
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Anyone know if this might be the same Dr Baden that testified in the defense of O.J. Simpson?
    Appears to be, yes. The Celebrity Pathologist - https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nati...?noredirect=on
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Guess this pretty much answers my question...



    I would imagine video footage is pretty much the be-all/end-all proof of homicide or not (of course, others might dispute that since I don't have any personal experience and am basing this just on common sense), so if there's any indication of tampering or denial of this footage, the attorneys will make a public stink about it.

    I also found this interesting...
    You find it interesting prison officials aren't cooperating? Why, exactly? They messed up and did something that exposes them to both criminal and civil liability. They FBI is coming at them anything they say is going to be used against them to justify criminal charges and/or result in them losing their life savings in a civil wrongful death suit. If they really did what has been reported, and they do want to talk to the FBI, they're going to want lawyers there. And everything I wrote applies to the non-conspirator version where Epstein killed himself while they were too lazy or tired to do their jobs properly. Their careers are already over, and they know it.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  5. Amen Cow Poke, DesertBerean, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  6. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't think you were being literal about that part. If we're talking about a scenario in which money changes hands to exploit a situation to intentionally cause the death of another person, we're still talking a homicide. That is possible even if he killed himself, however I don't imagine that being very likely for the simple reason that if a suspect is trying to orchestrate a real suicide, the chances of success are low and your mileage will very dramatically. What's the point in a criminal conspiracy with a 15% (just picking a random number) chance of success? To be honest, if a person or organization has enough influence and access to confidently predict that, they probably won't be caught unless there's a whistle blower. The breadth of power necessary to have all the pieces in place that quickly is difficult to imagine.

    Another possibility is that the jail staff just did that on their own, hoping he'd kill himself. But without a personal investment in the outcome, why do it? If there was personal investment, they'll have to find the reward.
    I don't see the odds of suicide as a necessary deterrent at all in that scenario. If that didn't work, try it again, a third, fourth, fifth time, or try something else. The fact he tried it once before didn't seem to provide the necessary means of prevention to stop it from happening a second time, so why not a third? To me the problem with the scenario is assuming who's involved and who had knowledge that it was an intentional setup. The guards are a bit of an obstacle, but if we assume they didn't actually take a bribe (strange that they're being uncooperative with investigators) and really were asleep, it's very plausible. It seems highly unlikely they just happened to be sleeping when they were guarding the most notorious criminal they had on their watch. So it was likely a regular routine with them, which means a higher-up knew this to be the case, then all that was needed was to remove a couple other barriers that the higher-up had the authority to do -- take him off suicide watch and remove his cellmate (without notifying the DoJ), both of which happened. Perfectly plausible to me, much more so than someone having an actual hand in the killing.

    ETA:

    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    You find it interesting prison officials aren't cooperating? Why, exactly? They messed up and did something that exposes them to both criminal and civil liability. They FBI is coming at them anything they say is going to be used against them to justify criminal charges and/or result in them losing their life savings in a civil wrongful death suit. If they really did what has been reported, and they do want to talk to the FBI, they're going to want lawyers there. And everything I wrote applies to the non-conspirator version where Epstein killed himself while they were too lazy or tired to do their jobs properly. Their careers are already over, and they know it.
    Isn't it pretty common knowledge at this point that they messed up and were falsifying records? How did it even become known they were sleeping and falsifying the logs? Seems like the jig is already up. Why be uncooperative at that point and just make yourself look even more culpable or suspicious?
    Last edited by seanD; 08-18-2019 at 01:20 PM.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. #445
    42nd Mojave Year DesertBerean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I think, for some of these conspiracy theories to flourish, there has to be a sense that a guest coroner is an adversary in an autopsy.

    I have attended MANY autopsies where there was a guest coroner representing the family of the deceased, or somebody else who believed they had a vested interest in the results, and maybe didn't trust the system.

    I have NEVER seen an atmosphere in autopsy where the medical examiners were in any way adversarial. They were interested in the truth, and often one of them would suggest checking out a particular theory or idea, and the person performing the autopsy would do everything to be transparent. There's an atmosphere of professionalism and cooperation. A sense of professional courtesy.

    To my knowledge, Dr Baden has never expressed any concern about a lack of cooperation during the autopsy, and has not challenged the findings.
    😳 You attended autopsies? *adds to list I didn't know pastors did*

  8. #446
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Prince Andrew inside pedophile mansion NY

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...depravity.html
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #447
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Prince Andrew inside pedophile mansion NY

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...depravity.html
    That's beautiful. Epstein was apparently recording everything, so I hope we get more revealing photos, a whole cache of photos and videos.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  10. #448
    42nd Mojave Year DesertBerean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    That's beautiful. Epstein was apparently recording everything, so I hope we get more revealing photos, a whole cache of photos and videos.
    I say it's dreadful. They were and are wrong, but this will lead to people being nasty and holier than thou. Very sad.

  11. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  12. #449
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    I say it's dreadful. They were and are wrong, but this will lead to people being nasty and holier than thou. Very sad.
    It was dreadful for the victims for sure. It's beautiful because they won't get away it. Furthermore, this will hopefully bolster the civil case against them. Maybe they'll even repent once exposed, but that's on them.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  13. #450
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    😳 You attended autopsies? *adds to list I didn't know pastors did*
    Laughing - never as a pastor.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  14. Amen DesertBerean, Teallaura amen'd this post.

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