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Thread: Epstein Found Dead In Cell...

  1. #231
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    A photo of the two prison guards on duty when Epstein committed suicide has recently been released:















    Sorry. Couldn't resist.





    Okay. Not that sorry and didn't try resisting very hard.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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  3. #232
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    This was interesting...



    So not only will the judge likely throw out the immunity protection (if they haven't already done so), which will allow the criminal investigation to progress, but NDAs are nullified which will presumably help in the civil suits that are set to rain down for the victims.

    It's looking more and more to me that someone on top of the federal food chain with a lot of authority just had had enough and concluded this was the only option for justice moving forward. I do believe there are still a remnant of good people in the criminal justice system. That's my conspiratorial hypothesis (my what if) and I'm sticking to it unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    Apparently, as far as the criminal case, they'll now be going after Epstein's co-conspirators such as the group of women he used to recruit young girls, particularly his head recruiter Ghislaine Maxwell. All I got to say is, madame Maxwell better hire some serious personal security
    I don't think one has to 'throw out' an immunity deal after the protected party has died. After their death, there's no one to protect. Immunity simply prevents prosecutors from charging the protected party. You can't charge him if he's dead. Now, the sealed court records are a different issue. But some of those were already unsealed and the others are up for consideration to be unsealed.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  4. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Not only did the guards inexplicably not make their 30 minute round check that night, but apparently Epstein's cellmate was moved, leaving Epstein alone the night he died, contrary to the DoJ that was told he would not only be monitored every 30 minutes but that he would in fact have a cellmate.

    I mean, give me a break. Sorry, but that goes beyond just negligence.


    ETA: the guards have also gotten defense attorneys
    It's not inexplicable. CP already hinted, but here: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/n...tein-barr.html

    The whole prison is understaffed, and they're overworked. Sleeping on the job is not acceptable, but when you have people working crazy scheduels....people fall asleep. I also heard on a NY Times podcast that one of the employees were forced to come in on their day off, the other was on overtime. One wasn't even a correctional officer, but a different type of prison employee brought in to help plug the staffing gap.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

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  6. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    From the NZ Herald (a slightly leftish MSM. Publication)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12258905
    Source: NZ Herald

    Autopsy finds broken bones in Jeffrey Epstein's neck, deepening questions around his death
    An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.

    Among the bones broken in Epstein's neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam's apple. Such breaks might be self-inflicted but they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said.

    The details are the first findings to emerge from the autopsy of Epstein, a convicted sex offender and multimillionaire in federal custody on charges of sex trafficking. He died early Saturday morning after guards found him hanging in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan and he could not be revived.

    © Copyright Original Source

    I investigate suicides and homicides for a living. This doesn't necessarily mean what you're implying it does.

    "Hyoid fracture following strangulation or hanging is well
    documented [10,11]. In a suspected case of murder, a fractured hyoid
    is indicative of strangulation, albeit this is not taken into consideration
    when the victim is a child or an adolescent, where the hyoid components
    are still pliable as ossification is not perfectly completed [10]"

    and

    "They are the result of direct trauma or hyperextension of the neck. Several
    causing factors have been reported. These include motor vehicle
    accidents, gunshot wounds, induced vomiting, injuries from helmet
    straps, choke holds and trauma during athletic activities such as martial
    arts or basketball [6,8,9,14-20]."

    https://www.longdom.org/open-access/...8.1000e128.pdf

    And...study wherein 15% of hanging victims have hyoid bone fractures: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20973326

    I'd be very interested in other things. Type of ligature, impressions and angle of impressions on neck, knot location and type, where the ligature was anchored, anchor impressions created by the ligature...and if you wanna get really nutty: touch DNA on the ligature. And all that ignores that there's probably security camera footage allowing them to track and time the appearance of anyone entering the area of his cell. Plus most modern prisons have elecontric locks, so there's likely a digital log of the door openings that are date and time stamped. Gotta look at the whole picture, bro.
    Last edited by myth; 08-15-2019 at 05:18 PM.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  7. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  8. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    I don't think one has to 'throw out' an immunity deal after the protected party has died. After their death, there's no one to protect. Immunity simply prevents prosecutors from charging the protected party. You can't charge him if he's dead. Now, the sealed court records are a different issue. But some of those were already unsealed and the others are up for consideration to be unsealed.
    Admittedly I don't know enough about the law to know the differences between sealed docs and immunity or the fine legal details of it, but the way I understood it is that the deal with Acosta was to protect Epstein's associates (co-conspirators) from prosecution, as well as a much lighter sentence for Epstein. In fact, the article I linked to points that out. This is what the attorneys are requesting to be lifted (thrown out?) so the investigation can expand further and what the judge is deciding to do. I'm not sure if this is result of his death or if they would have argued this even if he was alive, but that's what all the articles I've read about it are implying.



    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    It's not inexplicable. CP already hinted, but here: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/n...tein-barr.html

    The whole prison is understaffed, and they're overworked. Sleeping on the job is not acceptable, but when you have people working crazy scheduels....people fall asleep. I also heard on a NY Times podcast that one of the employees were forced to come in on their day off, the other was on overtime. One wasn't even a correctional officer, but a different type of prison employee brought in to help plug the staffing gap.
    Nope, there are a string of too many anomalies to assume they were just careless accidents, and this is even if I throw out the guard anomalies. I understand stuff happens with overworked staff, but it's beyond just that. I've researched it thoroughly and am even more convinced now than I was before.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  9. #236
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Admittedly I don't know enough about the law to know the differences between sealed docs and immunity or the fine legal details of it, but the way I understood it is that the deal with Acosta was to protect Epstein's associates (co-conspirators) from prosecution, as well as a much lighter sentence for Epstein. In fact, the article I linked to points that out. This is what the attorneys are requesting to be lifted (thrown out?) so the investigation can expand further and what the judge is deciding to do. I'm not sure if this is result of his death or if they would have argued this even if he was alive, but that's what all the articles I've read about it are implying.





    Nope, there are a string of too many anomalies to assume they were just careless accidents, and this is even if I throw out the guard anomalies. I understand stuff happens with overworked staff, but it's beyond just that. I've researched it thoroughly and am even more convinced now than I was before.
    Because of your extensive experience in corrections or law enforcement? I'm sorry, but you're reading stuff on the internet and making conjecture without having a baseline for how far out your assumptions are. If could be a conspiracy, but we don't have anywhere near facts to make those sort of assessments.

    Keep in mind that your primary source of information - news media - is just not very accurate. I've been on the inside of investigations and watched what different agencies report as fact many times. Very rarely are they dead accurate. Normally they have it mostly right, but details are plain wrong or the context given creates a false impression. Sometimes, they just don't have it right at all. And all to frequently I watch them report things that are factually incorrect....and they're rarely called on it, because the people who do know aren't in a position to talk to the press or release further information. And THIS is the quality of information from which you're basing your assumptions.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  10. Amen Cow Poke, One Bad Pig, Adrift, Sparko amen'd this post.
  11. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    Because of your extensive experience in corrections or law enforcement? I'm sorry, but you're reading stuff on the internet and making conjecture without having a baseline for how far out your assumptions are. If could be a conspiracy, but we don't have anywhere near facts to make those sort of assessments.

    Keep in mind that your primary source of information - news media - is just not very accurate. I've been on the inside of investigations and watched what different agencies report as fact many times. Very rarely are they dead accurate. Normally they have it mostly right, but details are plain wrong or the context given creates a false impression. Sometimes, they just don't have it right at all. And all to frequently I watch them report things that are factually incorrect....and they're rarely called on it, because the people who do know aren't in a position to talk to the press or release further information. And THIS is the quality of information from which you're basing your assumptions.
    I'm reading credible news sources, and not just one but multiple. How else are we to get the information? And since I'm fascinated with the story I've been following closely as it's developing. No offense, but just because you have experience doesn't necessarily mean you have any more insight as to the details of this situation than anyone else. You can certainly tell us what might have happened from your experience but not what did happen.

    Btw, apparently the plea deal with Acosta was separate from the Florida state charge against Epstein. The plea deal, which provided immunity to both Epstein and his associates, was a result of a federal investigation which was subsequently shut down as a result of the deal. The federal indictment is what they're trying to unseal.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  12. #238
    42nd Mojave Year DesertBerean's Avatar
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    I've seen the media go ape about things that I personally know they don't really know as facts or even what they're looking at. At worst, they twist facts or antagonize the situation. At best, the media will only state that it LOOKS LIKE something happened or is may be the case or...whuddever. Their goal is VIEWERSHIP OR READERSHIP....everything else is secondary.

  13. Amen rogue06, Adrift amen'd this post.
  14. #239
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    I've seen the media go ape about things that I personally know they don't really know as facts or even what they're looking at. At worst, they twist facts or antagonize the situation. At best, the media will only state that it LOOKS LIKE something happened or is may be the case or...whuddever. Their goal is VIEWERSHIP OR READERSHIP....everything else is secondary.
    True, which is why I've been following it closely to make sure to spot the things that have changed or any altered information. I've also been looking at different news reports that might be influenced by partisan bias one way or the other. For the most part the reported anomalies have been consistent, though with a bit more added detail with each report, with the exception of the report that the cameras were malfunctioning. I haven't been able to verify that.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I'm reading credible news sources, and not just one but multiple. How else are we to get the information? And since I'm fascinated with the story I've been following closely as it's developing. No offense, but just because you have experience doesn't necessarily mean you have any more insight as to the details of this situation than anyone else. You can certainly tell us what might have happened from your experience but not what did happen.

    Btw, apparently the plea deal with Acosta was separate from the Florida state charge against Epstein. The plea deal, which provided immunity to both Epstein and his associates, was a result of a federal investigation which was subsequently shut down as a result of the deal. The federal indictment is what they're trying to unseal.
    I don't have any more facts about the incident than you do.

    I do, however, have experience in analyzing the data available and making decisions based on that information. I've investigated hangings, other suicides, and homicides before. I have advanced certifications in the subject matter, thousands of hours of continuing ed training within the field, and a degree in the subject matter at hand. I've spent time photographing neck injuries on suicides, stood over bodies while medical examiners conducted autopsies and discussed the injuries and cause of death, pulled and reviewed more hours of security camera video than I care to remember, consulted with digital forensic experts on multiple occasions, and processed plenty of crimes scenes. I've investigated (and charged) crimes where politicians and organizations tried to obstruct the case or influence the outcome of the process.

    So I have a pretty good handle on how things happen in the world, since I spend all my time I work immersed in these issues. But hey, what do I know? You're free to speculate and be fascinated all you want, I'm just pointing out that you appear to be way out in left field here (based on the information that I've seen so far).

    If you think even credible news sources don't get the facts wrong from time to time, then think again. I pay considerable attention to the news -- because like you said, it's the only source of information I have. But you have to take that all with a grain of salt. Major news outlets misrepresent the truth, too. It's their job to capture your interest and sell that attention to advertisers.

    We can speculate all we want, but we'll never see the case file. And without seeing the actual information...we're just guessing the best we can. I'm just trying to make sure our assumptions here are grounded. Have a good night.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  16. Amen One Bad Pig, Adrift amen'd this post.

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