Epstein Found Dead In Cell...

[Raphael]

so that's where Tassy got it from.

I was just skimming CNN after it happened and was listening to the pundits arguing about it and basically mocking the conservative hicks for blaming Hillary.

That why I commented it's amusing watching the Left torn between wanting to mock the Right Tin Foil Hatters for thinking the Clinton's ordered a hit, and wanting to put on their own Tin Foil Hat and say Trump ordered a hit......there a few of them here doing that.....

[demi-conservative]

Well we have successfully gotten JimL and crew to agree with the conservative conspiracy that Epstein was murdered, instead of going with the liberal talking points that he just committed suicide.

First time JimL, also crew, disbelieves Fake News, don't believe it is just suicide. demi stunned, please to bring smelling salts.

[NorrinRadd]

Just wanted to inform you that it isn't anything personal on your part. This has been a pet peeve of his for years.

I think it's silly that anyone would complain about what I consider a normal and organized way of dealing with a multi-point post, and I would probably block someone for whining about it. And I almost NEVER block people.

[NorrinRadd]

you mean like:


Post Length Considerations
The maximum post length is 24K characters not including quoted material. Do not use multiple posts to circumvent this restriction. Please keep your points concise and limit the number of major points made in a debate/discussion to 1 or 2 per post max as this encourages discourse. Rebuttal posts get undesirably lengthy from both a writer's and a reader's perspective when there are too many points to address. Additionally, please allow the other person to respond to your post before making additional substantive posts and points directed towards that same person (i.e. back-to-back responses to a single post are not allowed.)

Please start strictly enforcing these rules forthwith. It will free up my time by bringing the forum to a swift end.

[rogue06]

That why I commented it's amusing watching the Left torn between wanting to mock the Right Tin Foil Hatters for thinking the Clinton's ordered a hit, and wanting to put on their own Tin Foil Hat and say Trump ordered a hit......there a few of them here doing that.....

That's because for them when conservatives make unfounded allegations it is nothing more than crazy talk but when liberals do it then it is entirely sensible and reasonable and needs to be thoroughly investigated (and re-investigated until they get the result they want).

[Tassman]

That why I commented it's amusing watching the Left torn between wanting to mock the Right Tin Foil Hatters for thinking the Clinton's ordered a hit, and wanting to put on their own Tin Foil Hat and say Trump ordered a hit......there a few of them here doing that.....

Well the person who made the accusation of “a hit” was Trump, who promulgated the unfounded theory that the Clinton's had a hand in Epstein’s death. One can only wonder why he would assume that Epstein was the victim of "a hit" at all.

[NorrinRadd]

Do you think that will end the conspiracy theory frenzy, or just feed it more?

Still too many anomalies and unanswered questions.

I missed part of the interview, but Cyril Wecht believes the medical evidence disclosed so far is not sufficiently accounted for by suicide by "leaning forward" with a bedsheet noose in place. It would require "velocity," such as from jumping from the top bunk. I didn't catch all he said, but I got the impression he believed the top bunk showed no signs of having been used.

OTOH, video cameras show no one in the vicinity of the cell during the hours in which the death is believed to have occurred.

Complete autopsy details must be reviewed. Condition of the cell, especially the top bunk, must be documented as accurately as possible. Video equipment must be checked for tampering. Timing of the death must be verified to the extent possible.

MCC personnel have been less than totally cooperative with investigators.

[demi-conservative]

Do you think that will end the conspiracy theory frenzy, or just feed it more?

Sad for those who want go back to sleep, but this is just beginning. Coming up, conspiracy of Obama, also others, against Trump.

[demi-conservative]

Did demi miss it? How to hang self with weak bedsheet???

[myth]

Fair enough. But do have any experience dealing with a high profile criminal like Epstein who apparently had a criminal network of other wealthy and powerful folks involved in his criminal conspiracy? See this is what bothers me. You guys treat this like it was just another day in prison life with just another criminal and it wasn't. This is one reason I don't buy the guard story (the idea they just didn't care and were treating it like another mundane situation) or the "this happens all the time in prisons" argument you guys use to explain it away. It would be like having a famous mob boss locked up, then something weird happens to him with a series of unusual things surrounding it, and you arguing "well this stuff happens all the time in prisons." No it doesn't under the circumstances

LOL....so you assume that I'm not mindful this may all be a giant conspiracy and think I've discounted that possibility, so you to try to win this riposte arguing that I don't know what's up because I haven't investigated people like Epstein before? Very few people in the world have handled those types investigations, so that's a safe bet. My reply to that is to ask how many hangings, suicides, or homicides you've investigated before? Because if your answer is zero, I'm still an expert in this subject compared to you.

I wasn't try to make myself seem high and mighty with what I previously wrote, I just thought that my training, education, and experience was relevant information for you to consider when I made statements about homicide investigations.

I agree that your conspiracy theory is POSSIBLE, I'm just saying that you've done a poor job of explaining why it's PROBABLE. As an example, it's possible that Trump's friends from Mars used their inter-dimensional spaceship to instantaneously appear in Epstein's jail cell and strangle him. But investigations are mostly about what's probable, not what's possible.

You know, I typed a up a big long response explaining why a hyoid bone fracture in a suspected hanging from a prison cell doesn't make me lean towards homicide (absent other context like tampered video footage, etc.) But I realize you're having too much fun with this conspiracy theory to really pay attention to any of what I would have said. If you truly want to know, I'll try to find more time to explain it. But unless you ask me to, I think I'll just save myself the time at this point. (It involves what one of the owners said about prison hangings being essentially a self-strangling.)

[myth]

Still too many anomalies and unanswered questions.

I missed part of the interview, but Cyril Wecht believes the medical evidence disclosed so far is not sufficiently accounted for by suicide by "leaning forward" with a bedsheet noose in place. It would require "velocity," such as from jumping from the top bunk. I didn't catch all he said, but I got the impression he believed the top bunk showed no signs of having been used.

OTOH, video cameras show no one in the vicinity of the cell during the hours in which the death is believed to have occurred.

Complete autopsy details must be reviewed. Condition of the cell, especially the top bunk, must be documented as accurately as possible. Video equipment must be checked for tampering. Timing of the death must be verified to the extent possible.

MCC personnel have been less than totally cooperative with investigators.

I think a lot of your questions may be answered if you had access to the actual case file. The frustrating thing is that a bed sheet will leave less physical evidence compared with a belt or rope. The pressure on the anchor point and the victim's neck is distributed along a greater surface area. That means less damage to the skin and less chance of impressions on the anchor, even in a higher velocity situations.

[Cow Poke]

I think it's silly that anyone would complain about what I consider a normal and organized way of dealing with a multi-point post, and I would probably block someone for whining about it. And I almost NEVER block people.

This is about me, isn't it?

[Cow Poke]

That's because for them when conservatives make unfounded allegations it is nothing more than crazy talk but when liberals do it then it is entirely sensible and reasonable and needs to be thoroughly investigated (and re-investigated until they get the result they want).

Like, even though there's no proof, the seriousness of the charge requires an investigation.

[Mountain Man]

Do you think that will end the conspiracy theory frenzy, or just feed it more?

Funny thing about conspiracy theories, the more evidence that is presented against it, the more convinced the lunatics are that it's true.

[Mountain Man]

OTOH, video cameras show no one in the vicinity of the cell during the hours in which the death is believed to have occurred.

The popular theory is that he was done in by the EMT crew.