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Thread: Epstein Found Dead In Cell...

  1. #521
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    The problem is that it's too easy to say the wrong thing. Now, granted, this may not be necessary under some circumstances - but innocent people have run off at the mouth meaning to be helpful and managed instead to get themselves in worse trouble.

    That's always a possibility - even great interviewers have that one guy that they just can't interview. They don't gel and neither 'gets' what the other is after - hilarity ensues. I've had patients that I'd have sworn were lying - or not - only to have a new interviewer get much better results. One patient was running me around and I was getting nowhere hunting a non-existent 'rapist' - when someone else talked to her she admitted she didn't want me thinking badly of her and that there was no rape. We got the guy in that day.

    With a DIS, the worst that can happen is we don't get everyone treated and we get to do the whole thing again in a few months. With a cop, there's the real possibility of decades in prison (depending on the crime, obviously). Sure, sometimes that means causing yourself more trouble - but it can also spare someone innocent from being convicted by their own stupid words.
    People don't get convicted just on their own word (well, not without a breakdown in the process). There has to be some corroboration. And I totally get what you're saying. Legal advice is great. But whether I wanted to ask for a lawyer would depend on how serious the potential charges are, what I did and whether it could be misconstrued, etc. To be honest, like 95% of people talk to me. Usually I get things that are marginally helpful the charging the suspect (because they did it). Sometimes I get GREAT stuff to help me charge the suspect. And sometimes they come out with stuff from left field that clears the whole thing up.

    To be clear I generally work with people to give them time to consult an attorney first, unless there's a compelling reason to move forward with charges. Actually...recently got a conviction on a case like that. I spoke with her 3-4 times. First was an introduction -- she declined to talk about the case and said she wanted to talk to an attorney. Then I contacted her again, she said she wasn't going to talk to me about the case. Then I had to interview her as a witness about something else, so I just told her I'd confine my questions to the other subject -- she came in and that's how things played out, we didn't discuss the case against her. Then...I showed up and arrested her in front of her family and she felt like talking to me, but resisted because of what her attorney said. Worked out well for me...but then she was guilty and I had a good case.
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  2. #522
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Unfortunately, as long as you pay your dues they'll pretty much support you regardless of what you did.
    Many of the unions today are corrupt themselves and are in it more for themselves, or more in cahoots with the employer, than they are in it to support of the employees. They certainly don't support the employee no matter what.

  3. #523
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    And yet they had no access to him.

    Why do you believe the coroner when he said he found broken bones in his neck (which made people think he was murdered) but refuse to accept the autopsy that ruled it a suicide? If the coroner were in on it and faked the autopsy, he would never have made the first revelation about the broken bones or have said that they were inconsistent with a suicide.
    I don't have an opinion on whether or not he committed suicide or was murdered (which I guess could be construed as "not accepting" that part of the coroner's report). The reason to accept the part about the broken bones is that is objectively verifiable fact. The conclusion -- death by suicide -- is subjective (but expert) opinion.

    I'm with Cyril Wecht: The coroner should have said "Pending" as cause of death, and waited for the various related investigations to conclude, and considered their findings before issuing the final cause of death opinion.

    Others -- Judge Crazy Eyes, IIRC -- have noted that they successfully prosecuted homicide cases that the coroner had ruled suicides.
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  4. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  5. #524
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    The problem is that it's too easy to say the wrong thing. Now, granted, this may not be necessary under some circumstances - but innocent people have run off at the mouth meaning to be helpful and managed instead to get themselves in worse trouble.

    That's always a possibility - even great interviewers have that one guy that they just can't interview. They don't gel and neither 'gets' what the other is after - hilarity ensues. I've had patients that I'd have sworn were lying - or not - only to have a new interviewer get much better results. One patient was running me around and I was getting nowhere hunting a non-existent 'rapist' - when someone else talked to her she admitted she didn't want me thinking badly of her and that there was no rape. We got the guy in that day.

    With a DIS, the worst that can happen is we don't get everyone treated and we get to do the whole thing again in a few months. With a cop, there's the real possibility of decades in prison (depending on the crime, obviously). Sure, sometimes that means causing yourself more trouble - but it can also spare someone innocent from being convicted by their own stupid words.
    Yeah, I think it depends on the issue, but kind of along with what you're saying I see this video ALL of the time posted on other forums (particularly Reddit)



    It's a "don't talk to cops" video with a presentation from a legal expert on the subject. I think there's wisdom here, though I think some people (especially those who post it a lot online) take it WAY too far. I've seen people take this so seriously that they recommend not talking to cops even if pulled over for a traffic violation, which seems to me to be a great way of getting yourself a ticket. There's a hilarious skit from Bob & Dave (Bob Odenkirk and David Cross) starring Keegan-Michael Key with a sov-cit type demonstrating your legal rights about talking to cops. I can't link it here because of language, but it's pretty much what I imagine those folks who take the "do not talk to cops" motto too far act like.

  6. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  7. #525
    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It is absolutely sickening - that is NOT what unions were for!
    I moderately despise Unions. Stories like this tend to increase my dislike of them.

    (I have seen Trade Unions cause too much destruction to like them)
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  8. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura, DesertBerean amen'd this post.
  9. #526
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    If you twist toilet paper up, it becomes pretty strong. I imagine even a weak sheet would easily gain enough strength to support a hanging if twisted into a rope. And if the sheets really were weaker than toilet paper, then they would be useless as sheets, wouldn't they?
    Yes, possible. Videos of outside is best proof.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  10. #527
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So the conspiracy nuts believe the coroner when they said he broke the bones in his neck
    The coroner did NOT say “he broke the bones in his neck”, he said “Jeffrey Epstein had multiple broken bones in his neck". Get the distinction?

    and they think that means foul play, but they don't believe the coroner when he says it was suicide?
    People aren’t necessarily arguing “foul play”, but that the conjunction of circumstances indicates there might be and that further investigation is in order.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  11. #528
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    The coroner did NOT say “he broke the bones in his neck”, he said “Jeffrey Epstein had multiple broken bones in his neck". Get the distinction?



    People aren’t necessarily arguing “foul play”, but that the conjunction of circumstances indicates there might be and that further investigation is in order.
    So you both believe the coroner who says "he had a broken Hyoid bone" in his neck, and saying "that doesn't usually occur with hangings" and don't believe the coroner when he says after finishing his examination that he did commit suicide?

    Again you toss away the actual investigation and claim "we need to do our own investigation!"



    Do you know what confirmation bias is? It is what you are looking for.

  12. #529
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So you both believe the coroner who says "he had a broken Hyoid bone" in his neck, and saying "that doesn't usually occur with hangings" and don't believe the coroner when he says after finishing his examination that he did commit suicide?

    Again you toss away the actual investigation and claim "we need to do our own investigation!"



    Do you know what confirmation bias is? It is what you are looking for.
    The investigation is ongoing, Sparko. Death by hanging isn't necessarily suicide, and there are too many suspiscious issues associated with this event that need be cleared up. That's all. No one is saying it wasn't suicide. But we want to know what the evidence itself is, not just accept the conclusion stated, such as we got from Atty Gen. Barr regarding the Mueller report.

  13. #530
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    The investigation is ongoing, Sparko. Death by hanging isn't necessarily suicide, and there are too many suspiscious issues associated with this event that need be cleared up. That's all. No one is saying it wasn't suicide. But we want to know what the evidence itself is, not just accept the conclusion stated, such as we got from Atty Gen. Barr regarding the Mueller report.
    No the investigation into the cause of his death is not ongoing. They ruled it a suicide.

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