Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Every Democrat in the Senate Against Free Speech

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    Cut it out, Jim - you're gonna get yourself in trouble with the mods for unsupported accusations of lying.

    Opposing a law that maliciously gives one side an advantage is not the same thing as supporting laws that maliciously gives your side an advantage.

    Democrats come and go with this one - and it does follow whether or not they are the recipients (with unions in decline it's not surprising they are back at this). Conversely, historically Democrats benefit from small actor donations (until Trump ) be they businesses or individuals. But the small actor cannot legitimately be said to not be attempting influence - influence is the purpose of donations. And they too, act collectively (PACs, interest groups, et al) - so should they be barred as well?

    Better question, why should donations be allowed across state lines AT ALL? Parties are themselves political actors so why should they be given a pass to interfere with local elections or to support lobbyists (yep, really a thing).

    Opposing an unfair advantage isn't the same as asking for an unfair advantage - you know it as well as the rest of us.

    The weird thing? Your present position is the same as CP's usual position - you actually agree with each other on the major issue of unfair financing of special interests.
    As I've noted before the Democrats are now the ones who benefit from the big money donors
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Until relatively recently Republicans enjoyed an advantage in getting support from the ultra-rich but this has flipped. In the last election an examination of the data provided by OpenSecrets found that of the 22 billionaires pumping money into campaigns and causes over half (13) gave money to the left with the remaining 9 donating to conservatives or equally splitting donations between the left and right. And of those giving the most, liberal billionaires easily led the list way outspending conservatives[1].

    If you have any doubts keep in mind how often Bernie Sanders blasted Hillary Clinton’s reliance on the support of the "1%" (it was one of his campaign's biggest themes in the Democratic primaries).

    And the same was true in the 2014 election where the 100 biggest donors during that election cycle gave approximately $174 million to Democrats in comparison to $140 million to Republicans.

    Much of this has been brought up previously when starlight complained about billionaires giving money to Republicans:
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Not just George Soros (who made much of his money trying to wreck the British economy[1] and convicted of breaking inside trader laws) but James Simons, Peter Lewis and Warren Buffett. And then there are Tom and Jim Steyer.

    Former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid used to rarely let a day go by without wringing his hands about the influence that the Koch brothers supposedly had over the Republican party while remaining silent over the influence that folks like the Steyers wield over Democrats. For instance, in 2014 Tom Steyer gave $5 million to Senate Majority PAC, the pro-Democratic Super PAC run by former Reid aides. The New York Times reported that as of April 2014 "Mr. Steyer and his wife, Kat Taylor, were the top source of super PAC money in the country this election cycle, contributing a total of more than $11 million."

    Steyer offered $100 million to Democrats that promised to support his energy agenda, chiefly blocking the proposed Keystone XL pipeline (which would cost him financially if it were built) but also includes massive new energy taxes and support for various "green energy" schemes that he is invested in.

    But it's only Republicans who have a problem with billionaire donors















    1. Even liberal economic icon Paul Krugman has been highly critical of how Soros gets wealthy wrecking economies and financial markets writing "[N]obody who has read a business magazine in the last few years can be unaware that these days there really are investors who not only move money in anticipation of a currency crisis, but actually do their best to trigger that crisis for fun and profit. These new actors on the scene do not yet have a standard name; my proposed term is 'Soroi'."











    1. The two top liberal donors in 2016 each gave more money than all the conservative donors did combined! Tom Steyer gave in excess of $11 million (and gave a whopping $74 million in 2014) and has pledged to spend at least another $50 million whereas the top conservative donor contributed a comparatively paltry $2.5 million.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Post my exact quote where I said that.

      I IMPLIED no such thing, though, in your incredibly biased ignorance, you may have erroneously INFERRED that.
      And, as per usual, little Jimmy runs away.

      He'll probably return with some idiot rant, but no actual quote.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        As I've noted before the Democrats are now the ones who benefit from the big money donors
        Jimmy actually agreed... BUT!!!!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          I still find it dubious to consider a company a legal person.
          Whether or not companies are legal people had nothing to do with the decision, though.

          The First Amendment says Congress shall make no law "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Does it say anything about people there? No. It says that Congress can't abridge those freedoms. Whether or not a company legally counts as a person or not is irrelevant to the question of the First Amendment because there's nothing about individual persons there. Heck, the idea it applies only to individual persons rather than companies doesn't make sense even in its own context. Newspapers--i.e. the press--were very frequently produced by companies. The whole "freedom of the press" line makes little sense if this was somehow not supposed to apply to companies, unless someone is actually trying to argue that newspapers produced by one individual are free to say whatever they want but any newspaper printed by a group can be censored.

          Citizens United may or may not have been the correct decision--but it did not turn at all on the question of corporate personhood.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            As I've noted before the Democrats are now the ones who benefit from the big money donors
            And as I noted, it is only the democrats who want to rid the system of big money special interests donors.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              And as I noted, it is only the democrats who want to rid the system of big money special interests donors.
              How bout making at least a feeble attempt to back up your false accusation here, JimmyLou?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                And as I noted, it is only the democrats who want to rid the system of big money special interests donors.
                Which is why they moved to do so when they had overwhelming control of both the House and Senate as well as the presidency. Oh wait.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Which is why they moved to do so when they had overwhelming control of both the House and Senate as well as the presidency. Oh wait.
                  It's like the two old boys at the finish of their batch of moonshine.

                  One of them pulls a gun on the other, hands him a jug, and says "drink some".
                  Then he takes the jug, hands his buddy the rifle, and says "now, make ME drink some".

                  The lying thieving scumbag dirty corrupt leftist commie pinko dishonorable Democrats* have to have a law to make them do the right thing.




                  *Jimmy inspired me to use superlative adjectives!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    It's like the two old boys at the finish of their batch of moonshine.

                    One of them pulls a gun on the other, hands him a jug, and says "drink some".
                    Then he takes the jug, hands his buddy the rifle, and says "now, make ME drink some".

                    The lying thieving scumbag dirty corrupt leftist commie pinko dishonorable Democrats* have to have a law to make them do the right thing.




                    *Jimmy inspired me to use superlative adjectives!
                    Pffft. They'll do what they typically do. Pass a law. Ignore it. And when they get caught, lead the charge to pass a new tougher law which they'll also promptly ignore.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Democrats are trying to change the rules so they can have an advantage, just like getting rid of the electoral college.
                      So, as you say, the democrats are the ones trying to change the rules, trying to get the special interests money out of politics. Your words! According to your reasoning though you've concluded that the Dems are doing this because getting rid of special interest money is to their advantage. What you don't understand is that by admitting to that, you are also admitting that keeping special interest money in politics is to the advantage of republicans. That's why you have to bad mouth the democrats agenda of campaign finance reform, you know it would be to the advantage of the majority, to the advantage of the democrats.


                      Sure, Jim - you've got it all figured out.
                      Pretty much. You're not all that hard to see through, CP.
                      Last edited by JimL; 08-16-2019, 09:16 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Which is why they moved to do so when they had overwhelming control of both the House and Senate as well as the presidency. Oh wait.
                        We have democrats running for President right now that are bucking the corrupt system and refusing to take special interest money. That's a difficult thing to do if you want to win in a corrupt system which is why it is such a difficult problem to solve. Any republicans pols doing the same, any demand for it amongst the republican electorate? I haven't seen it!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          How bout making at least a feeble attempt to back up your false accusation here, JimmyLou?
                          Ooops, just did. Post #55

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            So, as you say, the democrats are the ones trying to change the rules, trying to get the special interests money out of politics. Your words!
                            How did you get to be such a smarmy little conniving conman? Oh, yeah, you're a LIBERAL!!!! Those are not my exact words, as evidenced by your cowardly failure to produce the quote.

                            According to your reasoning...
                            Jimmy, honey, I don't trust you to tell me if it's day or night, and you have shown a remarkable failure at reason for your own thoughts, let alone trying to discern the reasoning of somebody else.

                            Pretty much. You're not all that hard to see through, CP.
                            Produce the quote - not your own perverted dishonest twisting of it, JimmySue.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              How did you get to be such a smarmy little conniving conman? Oh, yeah, you're a LIBERAL!!!! Those are not my exact words, as evidenced by your cowardly failure to produce the quote.
                              We were talking about getting the special interest money out of politics, CP, and you said "It is the democrats who are trying to change the rules, i.e get special interest money out of politics, because it is to their advantage." Correct? In other words, the republicans are not trying to change the rules, because not changing the rules is to their advantage. Correct? You obviously didn't like the idea that democrats were doing this, because it disadvantaged republicans, Correct!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                We were talking about ...
                                Jimmy, are you too ignorant to use the QUOTE FUNCTION? Like I said, I don't trust you any further than I can throw a bull by the tail. You are deranged, deluded and/or dishonest.

                                Use the quote function to provide my actual quote, and I'll be happy to respond.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                103 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                301 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                196 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X