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Thread: A Reason Why a Democrat Presidency in 2020 is an Extremely Bad Idea

  1. #51
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    OK, this has me curious. While I am aware both sides do rules twisting, how does Obamacare even begin to resemble the disingenuous rules twisting McConnell did?
    Obama's was worse - he even broke his own rules. Remember all the promises of transparency, and that he "will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."

    Would you call that disingenuous?
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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Obama's was worse - he even broke his own rules. Remember all the promises of transparency, and that he "will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."

    Would you call that disingenuous?
    No. While I don't applaud that choice, there is a difference between campaigning and governing. Politicians say many things on the campaign trail, only to discover that governing is a different animal and having to go back on things they said on the trail. To show "disingenuous" you'd have to show that he made the pledge knowing he was not going to do it. The pledge was made in his first campaign for president, when he had zero experience AS president. For example, Trump promised to cancel all finding of sanctuary cities. If he did so KNOWING he would not keep the promise, that would be disingenuous. Much as I find the man repugnant, I have no basis for believing he did that. The available information suggests he wanted to, and discovered he was making a promise that he legally could not keep.

    Now one might ask how it would be possible for him to NOT know the legality of what he was promising. That is a different issue. For Obama, the issue was not a legal one, and I have no idea why he ultimately elected to not keep the campaign promise. In general, I think people should keep their promises. But I also think people should be up-front if they have made a promise they later decide was not in anyone's best interests and own the reason for their change. Obama never gave us a reason (which I deplore), and Trump blamed everyone else (instead of simply saying, "I made a promise without understanding the legal implications"), which I also deplore.

    Again - neither of these things is anything like what McConnell did in 2016, which he clearly does not intend (according to him) to follow through on if it happens again in 2020. His track record is clear: honesty takes second place to "winning."
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

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  3. #53
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    No. While I don't applaud that choice, there is a difference between campaigning and governing.
    Of course there is. Silly silly me.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. #54
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Of course there is. Silly silly me.
    You mean, like Obama, who campaigned about 416 times in 417 weeks while governing?
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  5. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  6. #55
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    OK, this has me curious. While I am aware both sides do rules twisting, how does Obamacare even begin to resemble the disingenuous rules twisting McConnell did?
    The grossly unfair ramming it down everyone's throat after promising to be 'cooperative' and try to be 'bipartisan' - just before saying 'but we won' part.

    McConnell didn't twist or distort the rules - he defied convention but this ain't the UK. Neither 'broke' the rules - both were unfair.

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    You mean, like Obama, who campaigned about 416 times in 417 weeks while governing?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  8. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  9. #57
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Not the point, Teal. The point was the deceptiveness of the ad campaign itself and McConnell's "strategy," demonstrating that there is one objective to this man: win.
    Wasn't addressing the point - it had nothing to do with the argument that I could see anyway.

    If you aren't bright enough to beat the bully when he's doing stupid things...

  10. #58
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    The grossly unfair ramming it down everyone's throat after promising to be 'cooperative' and try to be 'bipartisan' - just before saying 'but we won' part.

    McConnell didn't twist or distort the rules - he defied convention but this ain't the UK. Neither 'broke' the rules - both were unfair.
    So clearly you won't object when the Dems do the same thing when they inevitably get the reins of power back in their hands...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  11. #59
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    So clearly you won't object when the Dems do the same thing when they inevitably get the reins of power back in their hands...
    I already said we should fix this before it becomes a 'thing' and both parties start undermining the presidency.

    I'm still not seeing the injustice - and the rules weren't 'twisted' - you can't twist rules that don't exist.

    As for 'inevitably' I'd normally agree - but I'm unsure if the Democratic party will survive should Trump win in 2020, which [ WAY TOO EARLY in the game to call, I know!] it looks like he well might.

  12. #60
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    You mean, like Obama, who campaigned about 416 times in 417 weeks while governing?
    That's different, he's the One.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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