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Thread: To Reduce Gun Violence, Congress Must Address Mental Health

  1. #31
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I think (and I'm only thinking out loud) that we're not really talking about somebody who would seek help with metal issues on their own -- I think we're talking about somebody seen by others as a threat. In a number of these cases, it's been a parent or relative who has raised a flag of concern.
    It's the perception that worries me. I'm thinking of somebody who isn't going to be a threat and who isn't actually at risk of getting red flagged... still not reaching out due to an abundance of caution.

    I've read a few articles that people who are sexually attracted to children but don't want to act on it, and who recognize it as a severe mental disorder, are generally afraid to reach out to therapists because there have been cases where people have done this and the therapist called the police, resulting in the FBI knocking down the door looking for child porn that wasn't even there, and resulting in the people being disowned by others. (As a result, these people have created their own online communities where they confide only in each other, which can't be the best solution.)
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  2. #32
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    It's the perception that worries me. I'm thinking of somebody who isn't going to be a threat and who isn't actually at risk of getting red flagged... still not reaching out due to an abundance of caution.

    I've read a few articles that people who are sexually attracted to children but don't want to act on it, and who recognize it as a severe mental disorder, are generally afraid to reach out to therapists because there have been cases where people have done this and the therapist called the police, resulting in the FBI knocking down the door looking for child porn that wasn't even there, and resulting in the people being disowned by others. (As a result, these people have created their own online communities where they confide only in each other, which can't be the best solution.)
    And I'm talking about the active shooters about whom numerous people have said "I wasn't surprise at all", where there were numerous encounters with law enforcement, and where schools have had major problems...
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And I'm talking about the active shooters about whom numerous people have said "I wasn't surprise at all", where there were numerous encounters with law enforcement, and where schools have had major problems...
    Right, I think we both agree that these are the people that the law would actually be used on. What I'm saying is that some people might be afraid the law would be used against them even if that wasn't actually the case, and avoid getting help.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  4. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  5. #34
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Right, I think we both agree that these are the people that the law would actually be used on. What I'm saying is that some people might be afraid the law would be used against them even if that wasn't actually the case, and avoid getting help.
    And, again, I don't think that the person we're really looking at -- a potential active shooter -- would even give a fleeting thought to getting help.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And, again, I don't think that the person we're really looking at -- a potential active shooter -- would even give a fleeting thought to getting help.
    I'm concerned about somebody who isn't a potential active shooter refusing to get help.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I'm concerned about somebody who isn't a potential active shooter refusing to get help.
    OK, so think about this.... somebody who is afraid of seeking help because their guns are going to be taken away.... isn't that a red flag already? That the guns are more important than the help?
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    OK, so think about this.... somebody who is afraid of seeking help because their guns are going to be taken away.... isn't that a red flag already? That the guns are more important than the help?
    I can see how that could be construed as condescending - not intended at all --- I'm thinking this through as we type.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  9. #38
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Are you arguing that there should be literally no gun prohibitions on a federal level? If so, then prisoners in federal custody would have to be allowed to have them. If you admit even that one exception, the door is opened for others.
    You may be introducing the question whether there should be any federal laws that involve imprisonment. But to the explicit issue, there may be conventional legal concepts that allow exceptions to rights for those who are imprisoned.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I can see how that could be construed as condescending - not intended at all --- I'm thinking this through as we type.
    I don't think you're being condescending. I simply think we have a situation where different rights and needs are in tension and there's no easy solution.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  11. #40
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    You may be introducing the question whether there should be any federal laws that involve imprisonment. But to the explicit issue, there may be conventional legal concepts that allow exceptions to rights for those who are imprisoned.
    The Supreme Court already allows exceptions to the Second Amendment - so far incorporation hasn't resulted in changes at the Federal level - or all that many at the state level...

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