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Thread: To Reduce Gun Violence, Congress Must Address Mental Health

  1. #41
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    OK, so think about this.... somebody who is afraid of seeking help because their guns are going to be taken away.... isn't that a red flag already? That the guns are more important than the help?
    Not necessarily - a police officer or someone living in a high crime area might well be concerned without their 'attachment' being an issue.

    Or it could be a sentimental one to a gift from a loved one - not an obsessive need to have a gun.

    We have to be careful about calling anything unusual a red flag. It always seems more obvious after the fact - and sometimes we include 'indicators' that really aren't.

    Excessive play of violent video games - depends on exactly what we mean by 'excessive'. Binged all weekend - probably not. Can't hold down a job because of the need to game - er, yeah, Houston, we have a problem. But finding that line takes a professional.

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  2. #42
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The biggest potential problem is that it might deter some people from seeking help with their mental health issues. We have to balance whether that risk is worth the gain, and I don't pretend to have those answers.
    Which is why we put requirements with teeth - there better be grounds to believe this person is a danger to self or others. If not - or if falsified - licensure will be the least of your worries.

    There is no perfect solution - but a person so scared that they won't seek help even knowing they have legal protections probably is more a danger to self and that being the putting off of care.

    I think we might need to look at making it harder to fire someone immediately after they seek care - but there would have to be exceptions even to that.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Which is why we put requirements with teeth - there better be grounds to believe this person is a danger to self or others. If not - or if falsified - licensure will be the least of your worries.

    There is no perfect solution - but a person so scared that they won't seek help even knowing they have legal protections probably is more a danger to self and that being the putting off of care.

    I think we might need to look at making it harder to fire someone immediately after they seek care - but there would have to be exceptions even to that.
    There's a meme going around claiming that Maryland's red flag law has already been widely abused, but no evidence was provided and it was made by a gun rights activist (who obviously isn't disinterested) so must be taken with a grain of salt.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  4. #44
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    There's a meme going around claiming that Maryland's red flag law has already been widely abused, but no evidence was provided and it was made by a gun rights activist (who obviously isn't disinterested) so must be taken with a grain of salt.
    But to be fair, you wouldn't expect complaints from disinterested parties.

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  5. #45
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    But to be fair, you wouldn't expect complaints from disinterested parties.
    That's true.

    More pertinently, it might be the case that the maker thought that any use of the red flag law would constitute an abuse.

    In searching, I didn't find any examples of cases that were clear abuses. I did find two or three cases where officers were fired at when attempting to conduct a confiscation.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  6. #46
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    That's true.

    More pertinently, it might be the case that the maker thought that any use of the red flag law would constitute an abuse.

    In searching, I didn't find any examples of cases that were clear abuses. I did find two or three cases where officers were fired at when attempting to conduct a confiscation.
    I was looking (sorta - kinda busy today) for the law itself and came across a story of an officer killing one of the gun owners.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    The Supreme Court already allows exceptions to the Second Amendment - so far incorporation hasn't resulted in changes at the Federal level - or all that many at the state level...
    are you saying that corporations can have guns?

  8. #48
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I don't think you're being condescending. I simply think we have a situation where different rights and needs are in tension and there's no easy solution.
    Agreed. And that probably has a lot with why it's not getting done.
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  9. #49
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    We have to be careful about calling anything unusual a red flag...
    I was referring to a study (now I'm gonna have to try to look it up) of schools in Florida where it was extremely obvious that there were seriously troubled students, but there was some kind of stigma that would cause the school to "look bad", so they routinely covered up situations that often involved multiple run-ins with local law enforcement.
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  10. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  11. #50
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    are you saying that corporations can have guns?
    No, the Second Amendment was incorporated to apply to the states.

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