To Reduce Gun Violence, Congress Must Address Mental Health

[Cow Poke]

To Reduce Gun Violence, Congress Must Address Mental Health

While the gun debate rages, why not do this?

[One Bad Pig]

Yes, we should do more for treating mental illness - insane asylums were shut down due to 'inhumane' conditions, but that just put the inmates on the streets.

On the other hand, it's sort of treating the symptom, exacerbated by the breakdown of the traditional family.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, we should do more for treating mental illness - insane asylums were shut down due to 'inhumane' conditions, but that just put the inmates on the streets.

On the other hand, it's sort of treating the symptom, exacerbated by the breakdown of the traditional family.

With the scare I just had with my own daughter - she's doing MUCH MUCH better now - I was wondering how she could possibly function in society. Extreme paranoia, hearing voices, up all night pacing and mumbling and checking for intruders with guns who were going to murder my family.... nobody could even get any sleep. I'm glad there was a hospital that would accept her, work with her, help balance her meds....

The first hospital seemed to have the attitude "we'll just keep you detained so you don't hurt somebody or yourself", but the hospital from which she just came home was more like "let's figure out what's wrong so you don't have to be here".

[rogue06]

With the scare I just had with my own daughter - she's doing MUCH MUCH better now - I was wondering how she could possibly function in society. Extreme paranoia, hearing voices, up all night pacing and mumbling and checking for intruders with guns who were going to murder my family.... nobody could even get any sleep. I'm glad there was a hospital that would accept her, work with her, help balance her meds....

The first hospital seemed to have the attitude "we'll just keep you detained so you don't hurt somebody or yourself", but the hospital from which she just came home was more like "let's figure out what's wrong so you don't have to be here".

What a concept. A hospital dedicated to trying to heal patients.

[Sparko]

The problem is, though, who gets to determine which people are too mentally ill to own a gun? Do they take the gun just because someone is on anti-depressants? Claiming depression causes suicides? What about bipolar? And how long? People's mental states change over time and with treatment. And perfectly normal people can snap or become mentally ill and never even see a doctor. How do you catch them?

And isn't taking guns away from someone because they MIGHT do something kinda like that movie "Minority Report" where people got arrested based on what some psychics predicted they were going to do?

I am just worried the anti-gun people will abuse this. "Oh, he voted for Trump! Obviously a white supremacist nutjob who can't be trusted with a gun!"

[Cow Poke]

What a concept. A hospital dedicated to trying to heal patients.

Unlike a welfare system dedicated to perpetuating welfare.

[Cow Poke]

The problem is, though, who gets to determine which people are too mentally ill to own a gun? Do they take the gun just because someone is on anti-depressants? Claiming depression causes suicides? What about bipolar? And how long? People's mental states change over time and with treatment. And perfectly normal people can snap or become mentally ill and never even see a doctor. How do you catch them?

And isn't taking guns away from someone because they MIGHT do something kinda like that movie "Minority Report" where people got arrested based on what some psychics predicted they were going to do?

I am just worried the anti-gun people will abuse this. "Oh, he voted for Trump! Obviously a white supremacist nutjob who can't be trusted with a gun!"

Those are issues worth considering, but in my opinion, not worth inaction.

[Teallaura]

We're going to have to deal with the nonsense that you have the 'right' to be so dysfunctional that you end up on the street. We also need fail safes that keep any one doctor from having power over a person for years on end - because that will attract abuse. At the same time, we don't want to rotate doctors constantly making consistent care impossible. Guardians need oversight - and I don't just mean the family ones. We need courts that specialize in this work rather than making family and criminal courts try to figure it out.

And we need to rebuild facilities - but that may be the silver lining to the stupid push to close them all. It gives us a chance to redesign hospitals to the benefit of patients - prison like facilities do nothing to help people transition back into society. Doctors, therapists, orderlies and architects giving their input BEFORE we start throwing concrete around.

There's a lot of work to be done - I think we as the church should be rolling up some sleeves!

[rogue06]

The problem is, though, who gets to determine which people are too mentally ill to own a gun? Do they take the gun just because someone is on anti-depressants? Claiming depression causes suicides? What about bipolar? And how long? People's mental states change over time and with treatment. And perfectly normal people can snap or become mentally ill and never even see a doctor. How do you catch them?

And isn't taking guns away from someone because they MIGHT do something kinda like that movie "Minority Report" where people got arrested based on what some psychics predicted they were going to do?

I am just worried the anti-gun people will abuse this. "Oh, he voted for Trump! Obviously a white supremacist nutjob who can't be trusted with a gun!"

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

If they own a MAGA hat they're patently a risk to the public at large and need to have any firearms they own confiscated.

[seanD]

The problem is, though, who gets to determine which people are too mentally ill to own a gun? Do they take the gun just because someone is on anti-depressants? Claiming depression causes suicides? What about bipolar? And how long? People's mental states change over time and with treatment. And perfectly normal people can snap or become mentally ill and never even see a doctor. How do you catch them?

And isn't taking guns away from someone because they MIGHT do something kinda like that movie "Minority Report" where people got arrested based on what some psychics predicted they were going to do?

I am just worried the anti-gun people will abuse this. "Oh, he voted for Trump! Obviously a white supremacist nutjob who can't be trusted with a gun!"

Same issue with "Red Flag" gun laws. There's black and white reasons a person shouldn't have access to a gun that we all agree (though government can't be trusted to be "reasonable" even here), and then there's that gray area we all don't agree and would interpret in many different ways.

[Teallaura]

The problem is, though, who gets to determine which people are too mentally ill to own a gun? Do they take the gun just because someone is on anti-depressants? Claiming depression causes suicides? What about bipolar? And how long? People's mental states change over time and with treatment. And perfectly normal people can snap or become mentally ill and never even see a doctor. How do you catch them?

And isn't taking guns away from someone because they MIGHT do something kinda like that movie "Minority Report" where people got arrested based on what some psychics predicted they were going to do?

I am just worried the anti-gun people will abuse this. "Oh, he voted for Trump! Obviously a white supremacist nutjob who can't be trusted with a gun!"

You use similar safe guards for confinement - and limit it to the time that the person is so unwell that gun ownership - and driver's licensing - are a danger to self and others. I think tying it to driving will help - only the urban insane folks will support loose requirements to take people's licenses.

[seanD]

You use similar safe guards for confinement - and limit it to the time that the person is so unwell that gun ownership - and driver's licensing - are a danger to self and others. I think tying it to driving will help - only the urban insane folks will support loose requirements to take people's licenses.

Driving is not as political of an issue as guns, so it can't really be compared.

[Sparko]

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

If they own a MAGA hat they're patently a risk to the public at large and need to have any firearms they own confiscated.

except with the way liberals are labeling every Trump supporter a Nazi, that is probably not a joke but what will really happen. And there are a lot of liberal doctors and judges out there.

[Sparko]

And how long do you keep the guns from someone? They would need a followup hearing to determine if they are sane enough to have a gun again. And does the government "store" these confiscated guns so they can be given back? Guns are pretty expensive.

[rogue06]

except with the way liberals are labeling every Trump supporter a Nazi, that is probably not a joke but what will really happen. And there are a lot of liberal doctors and judges out there.

That's one of my issues with the red flag laws currently being proposed. They confiscate the firearms and then later, in a few weeks or months, they hold a hearing where you finally get to defend yourself. Kinda turns due process on its head and pretty much like Carroll's Queen of Hearts when she declares in Alice in Wonderland "Sentence first! Verdict afterwards."