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Thread: To Reduce Gun Violence, Congress Must Address Mental Health

  1. #21
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    voting?
    Wouldn't work - we value the right greatly - and we should - but we NEED transportation. That, and one crazy is only going to sway the one in a million election. But that same crazy with a two ton bullet can kill. There's a more solid rationale - and we need to do it anyway. Seriously, if he/she is that far gone you do NOT want them behind the wheel or a trigger!

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Good luck.
    Most things worth doing aren't easy. Virtually none in politics.

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  3. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  4. #23
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    The biggest potential problem is that it might deter some people from seeking help with their mental health issues. We have to balance whether that risk is worth the gain, and I don't pretend to have those answers.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    As somebody who generally supports the idea of red flag laws, I have been looking up other concerns raised and some of them hold water. One is that is it common for police officers to struggle with depression on the job, and they may fear to seek help out of fear of losing their jobs. Another is their being used for political purposes. Trump suggested via Twitter a red flag be put on Chris Cuomo citing "filthy language". If the bar is being seen as so low that profanity will get your guns taken away, that's a problem.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  6. #25
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    As somebody who generally supports the idea of red flag laws, I have been looking up other concerns raised and some of them hold water. One is that is it common for police officers to struggle with depression on the job, and they may fear to seek help out of fear of losing their jobs. Another is their being used for political purposes. Trump suggested via Twitter a red flag be put on Chris Cuomo citing "filthy language". If the bar is being seen as so low that profanity will get your guns taken away, that's a problem.
    That tweet has all the earmarks of trolling on his part. But it is still a valid point. I can foresee people who attended a certain church (or mosque) being stripped of their rights without due process if the red flag laws get passed without some major changes.

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  7. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura amen'd this post.
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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    That tweet has all the earmarks of trolling on his part. But it is still a valid point. I can foresee people who attended a certain church (or mosque) being stripped of their rights without due process if the red flag laws get passed without some major changes.

    Apparently Kamala Harris's campaign touted that her proposal would have first amendment protections similar to the no fly list (as she consulted with counter-terrorism Obama admin veterans). That raises a couple other questions. Namely, the no fly list is known to be byzantine and nearly impossible to challenge, and hardly anybody's idea of promoting transparency. The other is how meaningful it is to claim that 1A activity is not considered, given that theoretically, nearly any speech is covered by 1A.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  9. #27
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    And how long do you keep the guns from someone? They would need a followup hearing to determine if they are sane enough to have a gun again. And does the government "store" these confiscated guns so they can be given back? Guns are pretty expensive.
    In a number of domestic violence cases, the party in question has been allowed by the court to assign me (as Pastor) as custodian of the firearms. I'm sure a similar agreement could be worked out with a responsible adult.
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  10. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  11. #28
    tWebber
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    Congress has not been granted powers to decide who can have guns and who can't.

    States run into the same limitations of the 2nd amendment through the 14th amendment concerning people declared citizens by Congress.

    Maybe states could address problems of people who are too unstable to be trusted with a gun, but this is where the laws must reside.

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Congress has not been granted powers to decide who can have guns and who can't.

    States run into the same limitations of the 2nd amendment through the 14th amendment concerning people declared citizens by Congress.

    Maybe states could address problems of people who are too unstable to be trusted with a gun, but this is where the laws must reside.
    Are you arguing that there should be literally no gun prohibitions on a federal level? If so, then prisoners in federal custody would have to be allowed to have them. If you admit even that one exception, the door is opened for others.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  13. #30
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The biggest potential problem is that it might deter some people from seeking help with their mental health issues. We have to balance whether that risk is worth the gain, and I don't pretend to have those answers.
    I think (and I'm only thinking out loud) that we're not really talking about somebody who would seek help with metal issues on their own -- I think we're talking about somebody seen by others as a threat. In a number of these cases, it's been a parent or relative who has raised a flag of concern.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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