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  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    Yep, I remember now.



    You think? It's been years since I've seen it, but it seemed relatively tame to me. Especially compared to Bakshi's one really bad movie that came out a few years later to capitalize on Roger Rabbit, Cool World. The 80s was a weird period for cinema though. Lots of "PG" films back then allowed for a couple cuss words and suggestive sexuality, and plenty of PG-13 included what would be deemed today as R-rated nudity. So you probably have a point.
    Well, the theatrical release has Donald Duck calling Daffy Duck the N word, one of the weasels reaching into Jessica Rabbit's dress to feel her up, and some other stuff that definitely would be censored today. PG meant something very different back then.

    That's true. I don't think animation itself implies child-like, and there are plenty of non-R rated animated movies that I appreciate as an adult. I think the stigma comes from the fact that a lot of cartoons intentionally craft their plots, dialogue, music, and artistry to appeal to children first, adults second (if adults are even considered). When I see a bunch of wacky dinosaurs with big eyes and funny voices telling jokes and doing prat falls, I don't think it's a stretch to think that maybe it's not really intended for the most sophisticated of audiences. Not to say that adults can't find it entertaining, but who is the intended audience there?
    A lot of live action stuff is equally guilty of those issues with plot and dialogue. Even some that are intended to be more serious. Also, appearances can be deceiving. Just because something has a colorful, or simple art style doesn't mean it was designed for little kids. South Park, The Simpsons, and others go with a simple art style, but their intended audience is adults.

    This topic does sort of lead into a more serious concern of mine about Peter Pan syndrome though, something that I think a lot of adults in the modern age are often unwittingly participating in to some extant (myself included).
    I think much of it is a side effect of technology making everyone's lives easier. We have far more time on our hands for non essential stuff, and most don't have to deal with the kind of hard lives that people even 30 years ago had.

    Ah, yeah. Adventure Time. That's the name of it. My brother wouldn't let his girls watch it because he thought it was too out there.
    Oh it is definitely out there. From those I know who like it, they even admit it is very hit or miss. When it is good, it's really good, when it is bad it is often very boring. Same with Regular Show, which was made by the same guy. By watching just a few episodes it was very clear the guy grew up in the 80's.

    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    Yeah, I think it's still a little weird to me that he is now so celebrated for that. Guy had what was essentially a failed career (Slipstream and Guyver weren't exactly runaway hits), he does a stint as Joker on the Batman animated series, a whole generation of kids grow up on it, and he's now legendary for it. I hope he's getting paid some big bucks for it.
    Well, he did work on the amazingly successful Batman the Animated Series, the Batman Arkham games, and many of the major animated works as the Joker. So yeah, looks like he made a lot off of that role.

    From what I understand he was actually hesitant to play the Joker, because he was afraid he wouldn't do the role justice. Obviously he ended up doing it, and is now known as one of the best actors to play the Joker, both out of live action and voice actors. Which is very uncommon since usually you get a very clear divide on best animated version and best live action version when there are portrayals in both types of media.

    He also did some good work in the 2003 TMNT, and some of the later Kingdom Hearts* games. Very different voices for each character too.

    *Lots of big names in that series. Leonard Nimoy, Billy Zane, Lance Bass, Haley Joel Osment etc. Some you can tell who it is, but they did such a good job with the character that you're not just picturing them the whole time. Leonard Nimoy and Billy Zane both did great jobs as their respective villains. They also brought in like 90% of all surviving Disney voice actors for the movies that are represented in the games. Having the originals for all of those Disney characters was a nice touch.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
      I miss "Boomerang." Nostalgic '60s fun.
      Old Boomerang was old CN, new Boomerang is CN from the mid to late 90's onward. New CN is mostly garbage.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        Well, the theatrical release has Donald Duck calling Daffy Duck the N word,
        Wait, what!? Are you sure about that? That seems highly unlikely to me. Why would Disney or Warner Bros. risk something like that? Googling, looks like Snopes discusses it here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/quacking-wise/

        I'm certain that it's an auditory illusion that people are "hearing", but wasn't actually stated. Happens all of the time in movies. Sort of like that Yanny or Laurel deal that was popular awhile back.

        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        one of the weasels reaching into Jessica Rabbit's dress to feel her up, and some other stuff that definitely would be censored today.
        The "booby-trap" gag? Yeah, that's a little racy, but I feel that that goes back to old Warner Brother or Tom and Jerry cartoons. There are scenes and innuendos in some of the Shrek films that seem worse than that.

        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        PG meant something very different back then.
        Granted.

        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        A lot of live action stuff is equally guilty of those issues with plot and dialogue. Even some that are intended to be more serious. Also, appearances can be deceiving. Just because something has a colorful, or simple art style doesn't mean it was designed for little kids. South Park, The Simpsons, and others go with a simple art style, but their intended audience is adults.
        I don't think that I can be convinced that movies like Finding Nemo, and Cars are more geared for all audiences rather than children specifically. That's not to say that adults can't find them entertaining, but plenty of cartoons have an intended audience. Studios create films with certain demographics in mind. I don't think that's at all up for debate. I don't think the South Park/Simpsons analogy is terribly convincing either. I agree that they're intended for adults, but plot and dialogue tell us that they're a far cry from films that are mostly intended for child audiences like Frozen. Also, I think it can be argued that there's a youth age-bracket intended for even The Simpsons and South Park (South Park especially). The humor tends to be geared towards teens and maybe early 20-somethings.

        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        I think much of it is a side effect of technology making everyone's lives easier. We have far more time on our hands for non essential stuff, and most don't have to deal with the kind of hard lives that people even 30 years ago had.
        Yeah, that likely has a lot to do with it. I started noticing it in the comic book collecting world. When I started to see more teens and then adults in comic book stores as opposed to children, to whom comic books were originally intended, it stood out to me. That isn't to say that there aren't grown-up comics, or that comic books haven't gotten more sophisticated over time, but I know for a lot of collectors, the appeal of collecting is reaching back into one's childhood (I still grab the odd comic here and there, so I'm not immune to this). Bill Maher, who, for the record, I think is a dirt bag, actually went on a rant about this after Stan Lee died, and as much as I can't stand him, he made what I considered were some good points. I can't link the video here because it contains vulgar language, but at one point he even quotes 1 Corinthians 13:11 (of course, he can't help throwing shade on the Bible even when he agrees with it). I think this would be a great topic for another thread. I might start one later.

        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        Oh it is definitely out there. From those I know who like it, they even admit it is very hit or miss. When it is good, it's really good, when it is bad it is often very boring. Same with Regular Show, which was made by the same guy. By watching just a few episodes it was very clear the guy grew up in the 80's.


        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        Well, he did work on the amazingly successful Batman the Animated Series, the Batman Arkham games, and many of the major animated works as the Joker. So yeah, looks like he made a lot off of that role.

        From what I understand he was actually hesitant to play the Joker, because he was afraid he wouldn't do the role justice. Obviously he ended up doing it, and is now known as one of the best actors to play the Joker, both out of live action and voice actors. Which is very uncommon since usually you get a very clear divide on best animated version and best live action version when there are portrayals in both types of media.

        He also did some good work in the 2003 TMNT, and some of the later Kingdom Hearts* games. Very different voices for each character too.
        Well, that's good for him. I'm glad he's not just "that guy who played Luke Skywalker." I was always a bit sad that his career never went anywhere. I remember him showing up as The Trickster in the old Flash TV series, and thinking "man, how the mighty have fallen."

        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        *Lots of big names in that series. Leonard Nimoy, Billy Zane, Lance Bass, Haley Joel Osment etc. Some you can tell who it is, but they did such a good job with the character that you're not just picturing them the whole time. Leonard Nimoy and Billy Zane both did great jobs as their respective villains. They also brought in like 90% of all surviving Disney voice actors for the movies that are represented in the games. Having the originals for all of those Disney characters was a nice touch.
        Wow. That's impressive. I never...got...the Kingdom Hearts games. I never played one, but the mishmash of Final Fantasy style anime with Disney characters just seemed so bizarre to me.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          Wait, what!? Are you sure about that? That seems highly unlikely to me. Why would Disney or Warner Bros. risk something like that? Googling, looks like Snopes discusses it here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/quacking-wise/

          I'm certain that it's an auditory illusion that people are "hearing", but wasn't actually stated. Happens all of the time in movies. Sort of like that Yanny or Laurel deal that was popular awhile back.
          Well, that is possible, but Disney has been more free with Donald Duck than with Mickey Mouse. I think they even had him as a German soldier, and possibly a Nazi in one of the older cartoons if I'm remembering right.

          The "booby-trap" gag? Yeah, that's a little racy, but I feel that that goes back to old Warner Brother or Tom and Jerry cartoons. There are scenes and innuendos in some of the Shrek films that seem worse than that.
          There is also a short scene that got edited out in later showings in theater that shows up her dress, and she's not wearing anything under there.

          Granted.



          I don't think that I can be convinced that movies like Finding Nemo, and Cars are more geared for all audiences rather than children specifically. That's not to say that adults can't find them entertaining, but plenty of cartoons have an intended audience. Studios create films with certain demographics in mind. I don't think that's at all up for debate. I don't think the South Park/Simpsons analogy is terribly convincing either. I agree that they're intended for adults, but plot and dialogue tell us that they're a far cry from films that are mostly intended for child audiences like Frozen. Also, I think it can be argued that there's a youth age-bracket intended for even The Simpsons and South Park (South Park especially). The humor tends to be geared towards teens and maybe early 20-somethings.
          The first Cars was meh, but Finding Nemo was actually decent. A better example of one with a simple style, but appeals to all audiences would be Toy Story. The original Disney Snow White and Fantasia were done simple for a love of animation. Fantasia didn't end up being all that successful, and while bright and colorful at times was clearly not aimed specifically at children.

          Yeah, that likely has a lot to do with it. I started noticing it in the comic book collecting world. When I started to see more teens and then adults in comic book stores as opposed to children, to whom comic books were originally intended, it stood out to me. That isn't to say that there aren't grown-up comics, or that comic books haven't gotten more sophisticated over time, but I know for a lot of collectors, the appeal of collecting is reaching back into one's childhood (I still grab the odd comic here and there, so I'm not immune to this). Bill Maher, who, for the record, I think is a dirt bag, actually went on a rant about this after Stan Lee died, and as much as I can't stand him, he made what I considered were some good points. I can't link the video here because it contains vulgar language, but at one point he even quotes 1 Corinthians 13:11 (of course, he can't help throwing shade on the Bible even when he agrees with it). I think this would be a great topic for another thread. I might start one later.
          Definitely an interesting topic to discuss.

          Those two and The Amazing World of Gumball are pretty close to the weirdness of Spartacus and the Sun Beneath the Sea.

          Well, that's good for him. I'm glad he's not just "that guy who played Luke Skywalker." I was always a bit sad that his career never went anywhere. I remember him showing up as The Trickster in the old Flash TV series, and thinking "man, how the mighty have fallen."
          Check his IMDB, he's actually in a lot of stuff, especially animated stuff.

          Wow. That's impressive. I never...got...the Kingdom Hearts games. I never played one, but the mishmash of Final Fantasy style anime with Disney characters just seemed so bizarre to me.
          It's a bizarre combination, but they made it work, and really well. There is so much effort put into it, and many of the voice actors sound like they are having a lot of fun in their roles. Some of the more phoned in ones are usually* the actors who were replacements for actors that weren't in the originals, or were new characters who were doing their role for the first time. Leonard Nimoy is so perfect for who he played. Most of the time you can tell the people working on the series cared, and wanted to make a great game. Whether it was music, voices, artwork, or any other category.

          It's probably my all time favorite series, even if I was a bit disappointed in 3. I was bummed by the fact they took out the Final Fantasy(they left in anime style characters, just none from Final Fantasy), many others were too. Hopefully the new difficulty mode they put in, and the new DLC add a bit to make it on par with the remixes they had for the first two games. I am looking forward to the next game in the series, even if it isn't one of the numbered titles.

          Billy Zane and Leonard Nimoy were perfect for their roles. It's a shame Billy Zane left, and not one, but two actors for Xehanort, which was Nimoy's character, died.

          *Not always, Ariel sounds a bit off in the second game at times.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
            Well, that is possible, but Disney has been more free with Donald Duck than with Mickey Mouse. I think they even had him as a German soldier, and possibly a Nazi in one of the older cartoons if I'm remembering right.
            Der Fuehrer's Face has Donald as a (reluctant) Nazi working in a munitions factory though it was supposed to be a nightmare.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • You really think Disney openly released a motion picture in 1988 with that word in the script?
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                You really think Disney openly released a motion picture in 1988 with that word in the script?
                Disney only licensed their characters for use in it IIRC.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  Disney only licensed their characters for use in it IIRC.
                  Okay, do you think any major studio would openly do it?
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Okay, do you think any major studio would openly do it?
                    Back then? Yes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                      Back then? Yes.
                      The 80s were pretty loose, but it wasn't that out control.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        The 80s were pretty loose, but it wasn't that out control.
                        To be fair, Blazing Saddles, but it wasn't marketed toward a family audience.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          To be fair, Blazing Saddles, but it wasn't marketed toward a family audience.
                          Blazing Saddles came out in the 70s, which was about the craziest, most original period for cinema, when practically all of the rules were thrown out of the window. It was the decade of excess. The 80s saw the wild and care free Boomer hippies becoming yuppies, and there was an attempt to reign in the insanity of the previous decade. But, yeah, the fact that it wasn't oriented towards an adult audience with an R-rating meant it wasn't really intended for kids.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            Blazing Saddles came out in the 70s, which was about the craziest, most original period for cinema, when practically all of the rules were thrown out of the window. It was the decade of excess. The 80s saw the wild and care free Boomer hippies becoming yuppies, and there was an attempt to reign in the insanity of the previous decade. But, yeah, the fact that it wasn't oriented towards an adult audience with an R-rating meant it wasn't really intended for kids.
                            Many of Mel Brook's movies were decidedly un-PC, none more than Blazing Saddles

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Many of Mel Brook's movies were decidedly un-PC, none more than Blazing Saddles
                              Yep. But the libertarian attitudes of the 60s and 70s saw the West doing some awfully radical, and extremely un-PC things. The 70s was a period of free love, cocaine and disco, the rise of punk, and the beginning of rap. Fritz the Cat, Saturday Night Live, National Lampoons, and Heavy Metal magazine bucking every trend. Even porn got...pornier, from Playboy and Penthouse to Screw and Hustler. This was Times Square by the late 60s:



                              It's an era where lots of musicians were flashing Nazi imagery, not because they were actually fascists, but because they thrilled in how daring/shocking it was:





                              Even the Rolling Stones got in on that:



                              With the election of Reagan, and the hippies becoming parents, there seemed to a desire to pull the world back from the edge of insanity. Even Mel Brooks' films got a "little" tamer. By the 90s the course correction started going too far the other way to the point where the new moralizing seems mostly secular now, and PC culture is stifling even some of the most innocuous language.

                              Comment


                              • If I can ask a general question:

                                I'm not a movie person... at all, but I've been curious about the Godfather trilogy knowing just how critically renowned it is. Given each movie is a three hour time investment, would you say it's worthwhile?
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                                Comment

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