Originally posted by shunyadragon
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Welcome to the Archeology forum. Were you out doing some gardening and dug up a relic from the distant past? would you like to know more about Ancient Egypt? Did you think Memphis was actually a city in Tennessee?
Well, for the answers to those and other burning questions you've found the right digs.
Our forum rules apply here too, if you haven't read them now is the time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Confirmations of the New Testament
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Well, I ordered a copy of "The Text of the New Testament" by the Alands (second edition), and found this:
The differences they note are verses which have variants in the various editions. Now we are making progress, as subsequent editions refine their estimates, yet there is substantial agreement throughout the process.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostFixed it for ya!
If you are able to provide academic references that document NT fragments that date before 100 AD please do
It is unethical to edit someone else's post, and to argue by web link. Actually I asked Lee Merriil since you failed to respond and are too busy waving your hands.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI don't think he's being sneaky. He's not exactly good with details.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post...blah, blah, blah - making demands of others but still not addressing the argument other than to hand wave...
You pull this nonsense every time - I provided references. You provided one source to refute all FOUR references I'd provided and then demand I prove your cherry picked insufficient source wrong.
You owe me three references - and a sincere attempt at a refutation.
But as long as you keep up the pretense and the hand waving...
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDetails provided with references."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDetails provided with references.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThey were indeed regularly read aloud at meetings. So were many other “living texts” such as the Epistle of Barnabas, Epistles of Clement, The Gospel of Thomas, The Didache and several other texts…during the first two centuries in particular.
The Canon of Holy Writ was not finalized until much later. Its definitive form was not drawn up until the Easter letter of Bishop Athanasius in 367 C.E.
No true scholarship begins with an assumption. In this instance the assumption is of “inerrant scripture”. This is not scholarship, its confirmation bias.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNo true scholarship begins with an assumption. In this instance the assumption is of “inerrant scripture”. This is not scholarship, its confirmation bias.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
You pull this nonsense every time - I provided references. You provided one source to refute all FOUR references I'd provided and then demand I prove your cherry picked insufficient source wrong.
You owe me three references - and a sincere attempt at a refutation.
But as long as you keep up the pretense and the hand waving...
Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-30-2019, 06:44 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt would be grand if you could show any sort of proof about any of those, from that period in particular.
“Even in the ancient world, texts could move between canonical and noncanonical status. For example, there are a number of writings—including the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and Paul’s Epistle to the Laodiceans—that were “canonical” at some point in antiquity but are noncanonical today.”
https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tool...nical-writings
These texts show the fluidity of the notion of Scripture in the early centuries of the Church as demonstrated by the Aland’s in ‘The Text of The New Testament’ as previously cited.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostTher reference I provided covered the dating of the other fragments and described the Mark fragment as the oldest, and dated after 125 AD.oore references to follow.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Two . . . actually three including Mark fragment reference. You know these are easily available to you.
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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These references that I have provided are the dates of the known earliest fragments. Yes, some scholars project date estimates back to the late first century, but this is not based on the actual dates of the fragments. It is based on projected estimates as to when the original could possibly have been written. The belief that the referenced gospel are copies is based on references that possibly refer to originals ritten late in the 1st century, such as references to the Book of Revelation claimed to have been written between 80 and 100 AD, but the earliest fragment known is dated A.D. 100-200.
Also:
Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-31-2019, 02:41 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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I should note that the earliest manuscript of Julius Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico ("Commentaries on the Gallic War"), which was published somewhere 58 and 49 BC, comes from the 9th cent. A.D. This, using shuny's logic, means it is clearly not at all trustworthy and needs to be dismissed out of hand. Heck, that's true with nearly every writing we have from the ancient world. The oldest copies date from many centuries later.
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