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Thread: Confirmations of the New Testament

  1. #41
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    And this isn't news - also the answer is 'not very much'.
    The references cited indicate far more than you would be willing to admit.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #42
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Precisely. I could now write a book about WWII over 70 years later that relies on eyewitness testimony like from my father and a couples of uncles as well as neighbors I knew growing up.
    No references were made for eyewitnesses.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. #43
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The references cited indicate far more than you would be willing to admit.
    No, not really - just hyping the heck out of the few there are.

  4. #44
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    No references were made for eyewitnesses.
    Shuny, when someone claims to be an eyewitness, we count that as a reference to being an eyewitness.

    Bob claims to be an eyewitness and Mary records the account - we have an eyewitness account.

  5. Amen lee_merrill amen'd this post.
  6. #45
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    And this isn't news - also the answer is 'not very much'.
    The answer is that there are significantly more than you are prepared to acknowledge. The extant texts of the New Testament contain literally thousands of variations, or variants, from each other.

    http://www.textexcavation.com/textualvariants.html
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  7. #46
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    The answer is that there are significantly more than you are prepared to acknowledge. The extant texts of the New Testament contain literally thousands of variations, or variants, from each other.

    http://www.textexcavation.com/textualvariants.html
    There's a huge amount of variations and variants. The number of significant/meaningful variations, are miniscule however, when compared to the total number of manuscripts we have. Or another way to put it, the amount of meaningful variants relative to the total amount of variants that we have are hardly even worth mentioning.
    Last edited by Chrawnus; 08-23-2019 at 04:50 AM.

  8. #47
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Shuny, when someone claims to be an eyewitness, we count that as a reference to being an eyewitness.

    Bob claims to be an eyewitness and Mary records the account - we have an eyewitness account.
    There are no claims of eyewitnesses in the references so far.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #48
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    There's a huge amount of variations and variants. The number of significant/meaningful variations, are miniscule however, when compared to the total number of manuscripts we have. Or another way to put it, the amount of meaningful variants relative to the total amount of variants that we have are hardly even worth mentioning.
    Not based on the references provided from the historians and academic references.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  10. #49
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Not based on the references provided from the historians and academic references.
    I was responding to Tassman's claim about "the extant texts of the New Testament contain[ing] literally thousands of variations, or variants, from each other." I was not saying anything about Christian interpolations in texts from other ancient authors like Tacitus or Josephus.

  11. #50
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    There are no claims of eyewitnesses in the references so far.
    Repeating your claim requires me to repeat my response:

    Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." (Lk 1:1–4)

    "For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Pet. 1:16)

    "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us." (1 Jn 1:1–3)

    And people claiming to be eyewitnesses, when their claim could be verified, is evidence that indeed they testified of what they had seen and heard.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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