The irony of the New York Times’ 1619 Project...

[oxmixmudd]

Honestly, the only evidence of racism I've seen in my lifetime is from liberals (and those who share their ideals) who are desperate to keep it alive.

In your life time - what are you 3?

That is nothing but bovine feces or you are the most naive person to have ever lived on the planet, and we all know the latter certainly isn't true.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

In your life time - what are you 3?

That is nothing but bovine feces or you are the most naive person to have ever lived on the planet, and we all know the latter certainly isn't true.

Jim

I can only tell you what I have personally seen and experienced, and what I've seen are liberals stoking the flames of racism for their own political benefit.

[lilpixieofterror]

No pix. That is not my logic nor am I trying to make everything racist. But there are still stark racial divides that will not be easy to fix, especially with people like you who refuse to acknowledge they exist and who will jot accept any responsibility to try to fix them.

Yeah it is, your just too blind to see it. You’re linking poverty with racism and attempting to argue that if something disadvantages the poor, it’s also racist. Do you even apply your own logic or are so desperate to see racism behind everything you don’t even put the slightest amount of thought into your logic?

There you go again, off the rails and impunig my motives, not addeessing the ideas ...

When Jim the hypocrite attacks other people’s motives all the time and it’s okay because Jim the Hypocrite is special and above the rules he expects others to follow.

Tell me when you get that plank out of your eye, hypocrite.

The KKK is but the tip of the iceberg in terms of the internet driven resurgence of the various forms of white nationalist/neo nazi groups and ideas. The current rise of the alt right and a president that often defers to such groups being a large part of that resurgence in the last 5 years.

I know the media is desperate to pretend we’re one step from Nazi rule, but in reality, these groups are dying off and making lots of noise in their death throws that democrats sure love because they can use them to fan the flames of racism. What’s more entertaining is how the media tries to tie Trump with them, when the connections are tedious, at best.

Source: abc news

The number of hate groups in the U.S. has reached an all-time high, even as membership in the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi outfits have fallen, according to a report by a legal advocacy organization that tracks them.

The Southern Poverty Law Center's annual "Year in Hate and Extremism" report counted 1,020 hate groups in the nation, an increase of 7 percent from the 954 tallied in 2017.

© Copyright Original Source

This doesn't count those in the shadows of the internet absorbing and accepting the ideas for themselves without actually joining any official group.

The media stroking the flames to get votes doesn’t prove what you want it to prove. The SPL has made millions in stroking the flames of racism to get their donors to hand over millions. I’ll pass on the morally bankrupt SPL and their mindless supporters.

As do I. And yet the number of African Americans that work where I do in strong technical positions is a good bit lower than their population percentage, even though I can observe every effort being made to implement strong EEO policies.

Could it be equally possible that not as many want to be engineers and other technical fields? My shop only averages 3-4 women for a group of 60. Does that prove sexism is alive or simply not as many women are interested in working in areas that can sometimes be dirty? You go to the medical group or offices, the ratio is much higher. Why? Fewer women are interested in jobs that can be dirty that don’t have the best working conditions. Most would rather be in a nice, AC controlled building, working at a desk most of the day. A few of my girlfriends wonder how I deal with it and it’s no big deal since I have all brothers, more uncles than aunts, and more male cousins vs female cousins. As far as I have seen, Maintenance is a male dominated field and engineering is too. By race, Asians rule the STEM fields with 30% of graduates in STEM being Asian, followed by whites, Hispanics, and finally blacks. Unless you want to argue that colleges are racist, it seems like less blacks go for technical degrees, just as less women do.

As I have said all along, you can give all the anecdotal evidence you want, the data, the statistics show there is still a significant disadvantage to being black in this country. And if we turn a blind eye to that difference, then we are participating with the history that produced the situation.

And you can have all the EEO you want, but if only 10% of STEM degrees are awarded to black college grads, than good luck reaching that 14% goal.

Consider the parable of the Good Samaritan. Did any of the other folks walking by actively DO anything to create more hurt to the fellow beaten by the robbers? Of course not. But just walking by and observing the problem gave them a moral obligation not merely to avoid making things worse, but to actually do something to make it better. To be a neighbor, to live up to what mercy requires, they would have needed to take the risk and make the sacrifices required to help like the Samaritan did.

As I pointed out, it’s pretty hard to reach a 14% goal when you have a lower percentage of technical grads to choose from. Blacks in STEM fields are in a great position because there’s fewer of them to choose from to reach that EEO goal. There’s much simpler reasons than racism being the cause. Did you even bother to check on degree grad rates before you choose racism as the cause? EEO works great for me too because I’ll have my engineering degree a few years before I leave the military and how many companies would love to have a women engineer among their staff since only 25% of engineering degrees are awarded to women? Add my veteran status on top of that and I’m HR’s dream candidate.

The hard fact is, the racial divide is still here. There are still perverse and racist elements which unfortunately have and are seeing resurgence, and it is still, on average, a significant disadvantage to be born black in this country. And since our history of slavery and racism created that often self perpetuating difference, we as a country, as a people, have a responsibility to take the necessary steps to correct those problems as much as is possible.

And you’re wrong. As I pointed out above, the media and others have an active interest in keeping racism alive. The SPL frequently labels groups as ‘hate groups’ that are not hate groups to keep the cash flowing in and the media has an active interest in promoting racism since it keeps people voting democrat. Likewise, your own cases don’t even sound like racism since fewer candidates to choose from naturally leads to lower numbers. Finally, I just need to check history to see how questionable your claims are. When my grandfather joined the Army in the 46, the Army was a white, straight, Christian, boys only club where anyone that wasn’t those 4 things was either forced to hide it, forced into secondary roles, or simply barred from service. Is that true today?

[Mountain Man]

The Southern Poverty Law Center, isthe same group that decaled Focus On The Family a hate group. It's reasonable to regard any list they put out with skepticism.

[lilpixieofterror]

The Southern Poverty Law Center, isthe same group that decaled Focus On The Family a hate group. It's reasonable to regard any list they put out with skepticism.

The SPL’s entire business model is built around racism. If they say racism is on the decline, their donors might dry up. They have an active interest in keeping it alive and well.

[rogue06]

The Southern Poverty Law Center, isthe same group that decaled Focus On The Family a hate group. It's reasonable to regard any list they put out with skepticism.

They don't have a good track record

They only call those they disagree with politically a hate group.

The Southern Poverty Law Center? The same Southern Poverty Law Center which was unceremoniously dropped by the FBI's Hate Crime Web page as a source?

The same Southern Poverty Law Center which branded the Family Research Council, a mainstream conservative think tank founded by James Dobson a "hate group" on par with Aryan Nations, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Stormfront and the Westboro Baptist Church?

In the latter case SPLC's designation led directly to an armed gunman, Floyd Corkins II, entering FRC's Washington D.C. headquarters in 2012 and opening fire. Fortunately nobody was killed although a security guard was wounded before wrestling Corkins to the ground and disarming him.

Corkins, a gay activist who volunteered at a LGBT community center, told the FBI agent interviewing him that he picked the FRC to attack because they were on the SPLC's list of anti-gay "hate groups."

The SPLC strenuously defended their actions because, get this, the FRC takes a political stance that they disagree with. That was enough to earn them being listed as a hate group. Meanwhile groups like Black Lives Matter chant things like "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!" and "What do we want? Dead cops!" at their protests but the SPLC sees nothing wrong with that and even say they are merely "activists for racial justice." This is one of the reasons why the SPLC has lost credibility including among many liberals.

Their assessment of anything isn't worth spit. You just cannot stop yourself from using less than reputable sources.

I noted how the FBI dumped them but they aren't the only ones. In 2014, the Pentagon declared that they were eliminating all information on hate groups provided by the SPLC but would still use them in "non-federal reference material" for the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI). Then in 2017 Brian J. Field, assistant U.S. attorney from the Civil Division announced that the Department of Defense's Office of Diversity Management and Equal Opportunity has removed any and all references to the SPLC in training materials used by the DEOMI.

This was a year after the Department of Justice's Executive Office for Immigration Review reprimanded the SPLC for accusing the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) of being a racist hate group. The SPLC ignored the rebuke and continued calling FAIR a hate group.

To illustrate just how far out of touch with reality that the SPLC really is they list the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting by Omar Mateen the most deadly Islamic terror attack since 9/11, along with the shootings of police officers by black anti-white radicals as "right-wing" plots.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they end up proclaiming that the bogus attack on Jussie Smollett a right wing plot as well.


Further Reading:

Washington Post exposes giant, well-funded hate group

The Southern Poverty Law Center has lost all credibility

The Southern Poverty ‘anti-hate’ racket

SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER SETTLES LAWSUIT AFTER FALSELY LABELING ‘EXTREMIST’ ORGANIZATION

Southern Poverty Law Center apologizes after painting journalists as fascists in retracted article

SPLC Apologizes, Pays $3.4M For Labeling Org. 'Extremist'

How Long Will Media Use SPLC’s Garbage Hate List To Smear People?

Hate Hustlers

Don't Fall For The SPLC's Lies

Southern Poverty Surpasses Half Billion in Assets; $121 Million Now Offshore

The Southern Poverty Law Center: From Klan Hunters to Multimillion-dollar Smear Machine

[oxmixmudd]

I can only tell you what I have personally seen and experienced, and what I've seen are liberals stoking the flames of racism for their own political benefit.

If you are more than 55 years old, you lived when segregation was legal. If you are more that 52 years old, then you were alive when MLK was assasinated If you are more that 49 years old then you were alive during the campaigns and shooting of george wallace, a man who campaigned at one time on the slogan 'segregation now, segregation tommorrow, segregation forever'. If you grew up watching Star Trek TOS, the you witnessed the controversy and outrage surrounding Kirk's forced kiss of Uhura, the very first interracial kiss on public TV. If you are more than 5 years old, the you witnessed and saw the racist chants in the rallies at charlottesville.


Your 'claim' is provably bovine feces



Jim

[Mountain Man]

If you are more than 55 years old, you lived when segregation was legal. If you are more that 52 years old, then you were alive when MLK was assasinated If you are more that 49 years old then you were alive during the campaigns and shooting of george wallace, a man who campaigned at one time on the slogan 'segregation now, segregation tommorrow, segregation forever'. If you grew up watching Star Trek TOS, the you witnessed the controversy and outrage surrounding Kirk's forced kiss of Uhura, the very first interracial kiss on public TV. If you are more than 5 years old, the you witnessed and saw the racist chants in the rallies at charlottesville.


Your 'claim' is provably bovine feces



Jim

So you can "disprove" what I have personally witnessed and experienced. Yeah, okay.

Perhaps I'm simply less sensitive to it because unlike racist liberals, I'm not constantly looking for -- and in many cases finding it where it doesn't exist.

[Adrift]

If you grew up watching Star Trek TOS, the you witnessed the controversy and outrage surrounding Kirk's forced kiss of Uhura, the very first interracial kiss on public TV.

I get your point, but this isn't technically true. Depending on how you define "race" Lucy was making out with Desi Arnaz years before, with no problem at all. It wasn't even the first interracial kiss in Star Trek (I know this because, even though I grew up with the show in syndication, I recently watched most of the original run in order on Netflix). Kirk makes out with Lt. Moreau, played by a Filipino actress, in the episode Mirror Mirror. And according to Nichelle Nichols, though it seemed controversial at first to NBC execs, her kiss with Shatner received nothing but praise from fans.

[Mountain Man]

I get your point, but this isn't technically true. Depending on how you define "race" Lucy was making out with Desi Arnaz years before, with no problem at all. It wasn't even the first interracial kiss in Star Trek (I know this because, even though I grew up with the show in syndication, I recently watched most of the original run in order on Netflix). Kirk makes out with Lt. Moreau, played by a Filipino actress, in the episode Mirror Mirror. And according to Nichelle Nichols, though it seemed controversial at first to NBC execs, her kiss with Shatner received nothing but praise from fans.

Yep. The "controversy" was greatly overblown.

[oxmixmudd]

So you can "disprove" what I have personally witnessed and experienced. Yeah, okay.

Perhaps I'm simply less sensitive to it because unlike racist liberals, I'm not constantly looking for -- and in many cases finding it where it doesn't exist.

I get your point, but this isn't technically true. Depending on how you define "race" Lucy was making out with Desi Arnaz years before, with no problem at all. It wasn't even the first interracial kiss in Star Trek (I know this because, even though I grew up with the show in syndication, I recently watched most of the original run in order on Netflix). Kirk makes out with Lt. Moreau, played by a Filipino actress, in the episode Mirror Mirror. And according to Nichelle Nichols, though it seemed controversial at first to NBC execs, her kiss with Shatner received nothing but praise from fans.

This gets old. MM said he did not witness racism in his life exept from 'over sensitive liberals' and I list a slew of events not like that at all that he most certainly did witness. And the response is to play on just how much controversy was in the subgroup 'fans of star trek' ( a progressive group in general) and the fact I didnt specify white/black when I used the word 'interacial' (or the fact later research found a handful of other instances)

To at least provide a bit more context concerning this event and what was going on at the time:

Source: WIKIPEDIA

In "Plato's Stepchildren," in contrast, the kiss is being shown as involuntary, being forced by telekinesis, perhaps to avoid any hint of romance that would risk outrage among some viewers. Also, William Shatner recalls in Star Trek Memories that NBC insisted their lips never touch (the technique of turning their heads away from the camera was used to conceal this). However, Nichelle Nichols insists in her autobiography Beyond Uhura (written in 1994 after Shatner's book) that the kiss was real, even during takes in which her head obscures their lips.[10]

When NBC executives learned of the kiss they became concerned it would anger TV stations in the Deep South.[11]Earlier in 1968, NBC had expressed similar concern over a musical sequence in a Petula Clark special in which she touched Harry Belafonte's arm, a moment cited as the first occasion of direct physical contact on American television between a man and woman of different races.[12] At one point during negotiations, the idea was brought up of having Spock kiss Uhura instead (as Spock was half Vulcan),[13] but William Shatner insisted that they stick with the original script.[14] NBC finally ordered that two versions of the scene be shot—one in which Kirk and Uhura kissed and one in which they did not.[15] Having successfully recorded the former version of the scene, Shatner and Nichelle Nichols deliberately flubbed every take of the latter version, thus forcing the episode to go out with the kiss intact.[16][17]

As Nichelle Nichols writes:[18]

Knowing that Gene was determined to air the real kiss, Bill shook me and hissed menacingly in his best ham-fisted Kirkian staccato delivery, "I! WON'T! KISS! YOU! I! WON'T! KISS! YOU!"

It was absolutely awful, and we were hysterical and ecstatic. The director was beside himself, and still determined to get the kissless shot. So we did it again, and it seemed to be fine. "Cut! Print! That's a wrap!"

The next day they screened the dailies, and although I rarely attended them, I couldn't miss this one. Everyone watched as Kirk and Uhura kissed and kissed and kissed. And I'd like to set the record straight: Although Kirk and Uhura fought it, they did kiss in every single scene. When the non-kissing scene came on, everyone in the room cracked up. The last shot, which looked okay on the set, actually had Bill wildly crossing his eyes. It was so corny and just plain bad it was unusable. The only alternative was to cut out the scene altogether, but that was impossible to do without ruining the entire episode. Finally, the guys in charge relented: "To hell with it. Let's go with the kiss." I guess they figured we were going to be cancelled in a few months anyway. And so the kiss stayed

© Copyright Original Source

And to MM: how you can pretend segregation and the assassination of MLK are such trivial events that you 'just didn't notice' is beyond me. It's actually quite a sick thing to say, but I'm sure David Duke would be proud of you.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

This gets old. MM said he did not witness racism in his life exept from 'over sensitive liberals' and I list a slew of events not like that at all that he most certainly did witness. And the response is to play on just how much controversy was in the subgroup 'fans of star trek' ( a progressive group in general) and the fact I didnt specify white/black when I used the word 'interacial' (or the fact later research found a handful of other instances)

To at least provide a bit more context concerning this event and what was going on at the time:

Source: WIKIPEDIA

In "Plato's Stepchildren," in contrast, the kiss is being shown as involuntary, being forced by telekinesis, perhaps to avoid any hint of romance that would risk outrage among some viewers. Also, William Shatner recalls in Star Trek Memories that NBC insisted their lips never touch (the technique of turning their heads away from the camera was used to conceal this). However, Nichelle Nichols insists in her autobiography Beyond Uhura (written in 1994 after Shatner's book) that the kiss was real, even during takes in which her head obscures their lips.[10]

When NBC executives learned of the kiss they became concerned it would anger TV stations in the Deep South.[11]Earlier in 1968, NBC had expressed similar concern over a musical sequence in a Petula Clark special in which she touched Harry Belafonte's arm, a moment cited as the first occasion of direct physical contact on American television between a man and woman of different races.[12] At one point during negotiations, the idea was brought up of having Spock kiss Uhura instead (as Spock was half Vulcan),[13] but William Shatner insisted that they stick with the original script.[14] NBC finally ordered that two versions of the scene be shot—one in which Kirk and Uhura kissed and one in which they did not.[15] Having successfully recorded the former version of the scene, Shatner and Nichelle Nichols deliberately flubbed every take of the latter version, thus forcing the episode to go out with the kiss intact.[16][17]

As Nichelle Nichols writes:[18]

Knowing that Gene was determined to air the real kiss, Bill shook me and hissed menacingly in his best ham-fisted Kirkian staccato delivery, "I! WON'T! KISS! YOU! I! WON'T! KISS! YOU!"

It was absolutely awful, and we were hysterical and ecstatic. The director was beside himself, and still determined to get the kissless shot. So we did it again, and it seemed to be fine. "Cut! Print! That's a wrap!"

The next day they screened the dailies, and although I rarely attended them, I couldn't miss this one. Everyone watched as Kirk and Uhura kissed and kissed and kissed. And I'd like to set the record straight: Although Kirk and Uhura fought it, they did kiss in every single scene. When the non-kissing scene came on, everyone in the room cracked up. The last shot, which looked okay on the set, actually had Bill wildly crossing his eyes. It was so corny and just plain bad it was unusable. The only alternative was to cut out the scene altogether, but that was impossible to do without ruining the entire episode. Finally, the guys in charge relented: "To hell with it. Let's go with the kiss." I guess they figured we were going to be cancelled in a few months anyway. And so the kiss stayed

© Copyright Original Source

And to MM: how you can pretend segregation and the assassination of MLK are such trivial events that you 'just didn't notice' is beyond me. It's actually quite a sick thing to say, but I'm sure David Duke would be proud of you.


Jim

I note you’ve ignored where I pointed out why your cries of racism, where other causes are more likely, and instead you choose to go after MM’s post. Quite revealing.

[Mountain Man]

MM said he did not witness racism in his life exept from 'over sensitive liberals'...

That's not what I said.

And to MM: how you can pretend segregation and the assassination of MLK are such trivial events that you 'just didn't notice' is beyond me.

MLK was killed several years before I was born, and segregation was never a thing anywhere I've lived as far as I can remember. I went to school with black kids as early as kindergarten, and it was no big deal.

[Mountain Man]

I note you’ve ignored where I pointed out why your cries of racism, where other causes are more likely, and instead you choose to go after MM’s post. Quite revealing.

I find it interesting that he has decided that my own personal experience is somehow "wrong".

[Sam]

MLK was killed several years before I was born, and segregation was never a thing anywhere I've lived as far as I can remember. I went to school with black kids as early as kindergarten, and it was no big deal.

Since American cities and suburbs remain extremely segregated by race even to this day, that either means that:

1) You've lived in very atypical communities or

2) You simply didn't recognize the degree to which the communities you lived in were segregated


But the extreme segregation of US communities isn't some question people can trade anecdotes about. It's empirical fact.

--Sam