Trump Cancels Denmark Visit

[Teallaura]

Maybe, maybe not. But you've got long-standing military bases on our territories as well as an enormous missile defense radar system. If you broke with NATO and ceased to be an ally of Denmark, you would have to pack up those bases and leave.

It is that cooporation that is the basis for Denmark being an ally of the US. Not anything else.

Granted - but if we go to war, we aren't counting on Denmark for material support. They can't provide it. So no, Denmark is not a powerful ally - and while I don't think anyone wants to lose that alliance, it quite frankly won't hurt the US nearly so badly as it would Denmark.

It's been discussed back and forth in the media. Should we bend over backward, understanding that Trump is a troll and be passively deflective? Perhaps, but he touched on a highly sensitive matter with all the tact of a clown on rollerblades. There's not much defending him Teal, you can certainly try to paint it like that. That it was an 'honest' mistake. If he had asked any advisor at all they would have told him it was a bad idea. Like they did when he asked the generals whether he could give himself the medal of honour.

There's no need to bend over backwards - but making snarky remarks after a mere inquiry makes your PM look like a jerk. He asked a question - whether or not he's a jerk, he is president, so her coming back with 'That's absurd' instead of, 'No, thanks' is unnecessarily snarky and bad diplomacy.

Being a jerk because you think the other guy is - that's being just as childish. Wasn't that what they were complaining about in the first place about Trump?

Greenland is one of Denmark's colonies. We have a long history of mistreating them culturally, and we're making preparations for that. Giving them healthcare, while slowly making them autonomous and eventually sovereign.

Cool - why does that matter with regards to the US making an extremely informal inquiry?

If Trump wanted to buy Greenland, he should have asked Greenland. He didn't, he asked us, which puts on a really bad spot in relationship to Greenland. So our current prime minister told him off, mildly jeopardizing our relationship with the US while showing Greenland that understand.

And given that it came up in conversation and he simply asked in response and no one asked anyone formally - why does this matter either?

Originally I thought it was just weird off-the-record idea from Trump. It was when he canceled his visit that I realized he was serious.

I figured he was serious if he bothered to ask about the possibility - but it was the snarkiness that got the trip canceled.

[Leonhard]

Granted - but if we go to war, we aren't counting on Denmark for material support.

Of course not. You have the largest military force on Earth, dimensioned so that ideally you don't need support from anyone. But as I said you have plenty of military bases of operations, and we've even looked the other way when your military has caused leaks of radiation, and environmental messes you haven't cleaned up.

In general, it's up to you, if you want ally's to show faith in them. You either want them, or you won't. And if they give you benefits you seek, you reciprocate, or the basis for the alliance quickly falls apart.

There's no need to bend over backwards - but making snarky remarks after a mere inquiry makes your PM look like a jerk.

Perhaps, but I'm sorry Teal, but your president is a jerk. To some conservatives, that's a nice feeling. They like that. Mountain Man is certainly getting a ride out of it. But since he is childish and a buffoon, you also shouldn't be all that surprised if people don't take him altogether too seriously. His actions are weird and random at times. Like when he wanted to give himself the Medal of Honour. So, I don't see the huge loss in Trump randomly getting a new temper tantrum over something nobody thought was a serious proposal.

Eventually, you'll have a new president and nobody will care.

[Teallaura]

Of course not. You have the largest military force on Earth, dimensioned so that ideally you don't need support from anyone. But as I said you have plenty of military bases of operations, and we've even looked the other way when your military has caused leaks of radiation, and environmental messes you haven't cleaned up.

In general, it's up to you, if you want ally's to show faith in them. You either want them, or you won't. And if they give you benefits you seek, you reciprocate, or the basis for the alliance quickly falls apart.

Er, the point being that Denmark isn't a powerful ally, as I stated. There are countries that the US has to sit up and pay attention to - Denmark isn't one of them.

And if Denmark wants to cut off relations because the president made an offhand inquiry when a subject came up and NO formal overture was made, then your country has much bigger problems in the sanity department than mine does - which is saying something!

Perhaps, but I'm sorry Teal, but your president is a jerk.

So is your PM - judging exclusively on her actions - what now is the point?

I think he can be quite a jerk - but he WASN'T being a jerk in simply asking a question in an informal setting when the issue came up. So, this go around, your Prime Minister wins the jerk prize which was the cancellation of the trip. Yay.

To some conservatives, that's a nice feeling. They like that. Mountain Man is certainly getting a ride out of it.

I don't and I don't care. Non-issue.

But since he is childish and a buffoon, you also shouldn't be all that surprised if people don't take him altogether too seriously.

The guy is President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the most powerful military on Earth. Y'all are more than welcome to not take him seriously - but it's purely insane for any government to not take seriously the Office of the President.

This go around, he literally didn't do anything wrong but your PM decided to mouth off anyway. He CAN indeed be a jerk - but this one is not on him. And she responded as Prime Minister of Denmark to the President of the United States - only to folks who hate Trump does it come off as his fault.

Is it a big deal? No, not really. Is it a dumb thing for a foreign head of state to do? Yep, really dumb.

His actions are weird and random at times. Like when he wanted to give himself the Medal of Honour.

I will point out first that CBS is a very liberal news outlet:

Source: CBS News

President Trump jokingly told a group of veterans Wednesday that he wanted to award himself a Medal of Honor, but said his aides convinced him otherwise. Mr. Trump made the remarks at the 75th annual convention for American Veterans (AMVETS), a volunteer-led organization formed by veterans.

The president also praised World War II hero Hershel "Woody" Williams, who was present at the event. The retired Marine is the last surviving Medal of Honor recipient to have fought in the pivotal Battle of Iwo Jima. "You are looking good, Woody," Mr. Trump said. "Woody is looking good."

"Nothing like the Medal of Honor. I wanted one, but they told me I don't qualify. I say, 'Can I give it to myself anyway?' They said, 'I don't think that's a good idea,'" he said to laughs.

Source

© Copyright Original Source

*emphasis mine

I actually hadn't heard this one except a passing Tweb reference so I had to look it up. Even CBS calls it a joke. Clearly intended to be humorous, not serious and those choosing to take it seriously are either suffering from TDS or just being dumb.

So, I don't see the huge loss in Trump randomly getting a new temper tantrum over something nobody thought was a serious proposal.

Who said it was?

Eventually, you'll have a new president and nobody will care.

No one will care by next week - and Denmark loses a short sit down with the president. No skin off our nose.

[Adrift]

Yeah, I had to go find the video. It's VERY clearly a joke,

[Leonhard]

And if Denmark wants to cut off relations

Denmark has made no such moves. If anyone cuts off relations it would be the US, because their president's feelings were hurt slightly. Which given your president, is not something that can be reasonably predicted when will happen.

he WASN'T being a jerk ... he literally didn't do anything wrong

He asked us whether we would sell one of our colonies, that we have a long and difficult history with. I've already explained it to you. It was diplomatically tactless and uninformed of him Teal. He didn't ask Greenland whether they wanted to become the 51st state, he asked Denmark. And he was told that it was absurd.

Which it is. Greenland isn't a country we can sell.

I actually hadn't heard this one except a passing Tweb reference so I had to look it up. Even CBS calls it a joke.

Granted, I accept that correction.

No one will care by next week

Then it seems we lost nothing.

[Adrift]

Denmark has made no such moves. If anyone cuts off relations it would be the US, because their president's feelings were hurt slightly. Which given your president, is not something that can be reasonably predicted when will happen.



He asked us whether we would sell one of our colonies, that we have a long and difficult history with. It was diplomatically tactless and uninformed of him Teal. He didn't ask Greenland whether they wanted to become the 51st state, he asked Denmark. And he was told that it was absurd.

Which it is. Greenland isn't a country we can sell.



Granted, I accept that correction.



Then it seems we lost nothing.

I didn't even know people lived on Greenland. That's the icy one, isn't it?

Is it really that Denmark can't sell a colony, or that, due to the difficulties you mention, it wouldn't look right/be feasible.

For the record, seems to me that Trump got embarrassed, and did the "I'm taking my ball home" shtick. Maybe your Prime Minister could have responded in a way that was a bit more diplomatic, but I can imagine the surreality of such a request taking anyone by surprise. As leader of the free world, Trump should have replied diplomatically as well, but as I've seen in recent administrations, there's a subsection of America that sees any sort of humbleness or meekness as a sign of weakness/blood in the water, and they believe that other foreign powers will immediately attempt to take advantage of that apparent weakness.

[Teallaura]

Denmark has made no such moves. If anyone cuts off relations it would be the US, because their president's feelings were hurt slightly. Which given your president, is not something that can be reasonably predicted when will happen.

No, already said we weren't interested - you were the one hinting that the US could lose allies.

He asked us whether we would sell one of our colonies,

No, he didn't. It came up in conversation and he asked an aide if it were possible to buy Greenland. No formal or even informal overture was EVER made.

that we have a long and difficult history with. I've already explained it to you.

Which is on Denmark, not Trump - he literally did not make an actual inquiry of Denmark.

It was diplomatically tactless and uninformed of him Teal.

I'd give you this if he'd ACTUALLY made an overture - he didn't. He asked an aide about the possibility.

He didn't ask Greenland whether they wanted to become the 51st state,

He didn't need to - no formal overture was being made to ANYONE. Besides, they aren't eligible without a Constitutional amendment.

he asked Denmark.

No, he didn't. No one called Denmark and asked - a question to an aide was reported in the media and hilarity ensued.

And he was told that it was absurd.

Unnecessary snarkiness - penalty, no presidential visit.

Which it is. Greenland isn't a country we can sell.

I suspect had it gotten far enough along to make a formal overture, it would have been a joint overture - but since it never got even close, how is he supposed to know any of that? He got a snarky comment from the PM of Denmark over just asking a question of HIS OWN AIDE - sheesh, the planet would stop rotating if he actually asked PUBLIC details of Denmark's relationship with Greenland.

Granted, I accept that correction.

Cool.

Then it seems we lost nothing.

Y'all were the ones up in arms about it. Realistically, yeah, you did lose a diplomatic opportunity but it shouldn't be a big loss.

[Teallaura]

I didn't even know people lived on Greenland. That's the icy one, isn't it?

Is it really that Denmark can't sell a colony, or that, due to the difficulties you mention, it wouldn't look right/be feasible.

For the record, seems to me that Trump got embarrassed, and did the "I'm taking my ball home" shtick. Maybe your Prime Minister could have responded in a way that was a bit more diplomatic, but I can imagine the surreality of such a request taking anyone by surprise. As leader of the free world, Trump should have replied diplomatically as well, but as I've seen in recent administrations, there's a subsection of America that sees any sort of humbleness or meekness as a sign of weakness/blood in the water, and they believe that other foreign powers will immediately attempt to take advantage of that apparent weakness.

His original reply to her actually was pretty darned good - very diplomatic and gracious.

It didn't last, I admit, but he really hasn't been nasty to her that I've seen.

[carpedm9587]

Actually, that struck me as Captain Obvious - the problem won't be with the nominee. If the Democrat party breaks up, it will be because Trump wins 2020. They ARE divided but none of that division is rallying to a candidate - so they'll probably just fall in with whatever they get.

What they probably won't be is excited about the candidate - and that is not good news for a party that relies on high turnout.

Still too early - everything is just semi-informed guesses at this point.

Even if they don't rally excitedly behind a candidate (which is by no means certain), they've already shown they'll rally behind a desire to get Trump out of the White House. And if the economy goes south in the next 15 months (which is looking increasingly likely), and Trump continues his childish narcissistic behavior (which is pretty much a given), I think that will be more than enough. But, as you note, we shall see. Trump is the master of media. We'll have to see if Americans can see past his BS this time around.

[Teallaura]

Even if they don't rally excitedly behind a candidate (which is by no means certain), they've already shown they'll rally behind a desire to get Trump out of the White House. And if the economy goes south in the next 15 months (which is looking increasingly likely), and Trump continues his childish narcissistic behavior (which is pretty much a given), I think that will be more than enough. But, as you note, we shall see. Trump is the master of media. We'll have to see if Americans can see past his BS this time around.

There is already evidence of exhaustion with the 'orange man bad' crap - no, to get people into the polls they have to be incensed, which is not at all what we see in the polls now. For that to work, Trump himself would have to deliberately become a cannibal or marry a four year old or something equally insanely egregious.

That's the one thing we can already say - you cannot count on voters being incensed later if they aren't now.

[Tassman]

Yeah, I had to go find the video. It's VERY clearly a joke,

'Many a true word is spoken in jest'.

[rogue06]

'Many a true word is spoken in jest'.

You really are an idiot.

Only kidding.

[Tassman]

You really are an idiot.

Only kidding.

Obviously you're only kidding.

[Charles]

Michael Gerson:

Trump accused the Danish prime minister of “blowing off the United States” because she scorned his own balmy, offensive musings on the future of Greenland. “We treat countries with respect,” he said — except, presumably, the “• Edited by a Moderator •” ones. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...?noredirect=on

Moderated By: Raphael

Watch the language, even in a quote

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[EvoUK]

Don't disagree with the concept of the quote- might want to edit the language though.