Dual loyalty - anti-semitic or not?

[KingsGambit]

Ilhan Omar was excoriated as anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews have a "dual loyalty" to Israel.

How is that substantively any different from Trump's comment yesterday that "Any Jewish people that Vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty"?

Either American Jews have a loyalty to Israel or they do not, and either it is offensive to claim this or it is not.

[seer]

Ilhan Omar was excoriated as anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews have a "dual loyalty" to Israel.

How is that substantively any different from Trump's comment yesterday that "Any Jewish people that Vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty"?

Either American Jews have a loyalty to Israel or they do not, and either it is offensive to claim this or it is not.

You can strongly support the state of Israel without having dual loyalty, as most Christians here do. And let's face it Israel is increasingly becoming persona non grata in the Democrat party.

[KingsGambit]

"Dual loyalty" in itself is not a bad thing because Christians all have loyalty to the kingdom of God among all else, right? I get that it's a bit trickier with the US and Israel because they're both more in the same category of being actual countries.

[KingsGambit]

You can strongly support the state of Israel without having dual loyalty, as most Christians here do. And let's face it Israel is increasingly becoming persona non grata in the Democrat party.

Okay, but Trump actually used the word "disloyalty", so trying to downplay that concept isn't relevant to the discussion of what he said.

[Sparko]

Ilhan Omar was excoriated as anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews have a "dual loyalty" to Israel.

How is that substantively any different from Trump's comment yesterday that "Any Jewish people that Vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty"?

Either American Jews have a loyalty to Israel or they do not, and either it is offensive to claim this or it is not.

I think the difference is that in the case of Israel, the muslims don't hate the secular country so much as the Jewish people. And the Jewish people here in the USA should have a loyalty to their own people even in foreign countries. So voting democrat is actually supporting attacks against the Jews in Israel.

Israel as a country is inextricably tied up with the Jewish religion and ethnicity.

[seer]

Okay, but Trump actually used the word "disloyalty", so trying to downplay that concept isn't relevant to the discussion of what he said.

I actually think US Jews should support the state of Israel. Especially considering their history - disloyal? That is a bit harsh. Where I think Omar was questioning their loyalty to the US because of their loyalty to Israel. Trump was not questioning the US Jews' loyalty to America.

[rogue06]

I think the difference is that in the case of Israel, the muslims don't hate the secular country so much as the Jewish people. And the Jewish people here in the USA should have a loyalty to their own people even in foreign countries. So voting democrat is actually supporting attacks against the Jews in Israel.

Israel as a country is inextricably tied up with the Jewish religion and ethnicity.

They also hate the idea of the state of Israel. For them if any land once had a Muslim flag hoisted on it then it is forever more Islamic territory. Many of them still are plenty pissed about the Reconquista in Spain that concluded over 500 years ago.

But then, maybe they should have considered the consequences of gleefully jumping into bed with Hitler.

[Sparko]

They also hate the idea of the state of Israel. For them if any land once had a Muslim flag hoisted on it then it is forever more Islamic territory. Many of them still are plenty pissed about the Reconquista in Spain that concluded over 500 years ago.

But then, maybe they should have considered the consequences of gleefully jumping into bed with Hitler.

Their real problem is with the Jews. If the Jews changed the name to Palestine and stayed in power, they would hate that just as much as they do Israel.

[rogue06]

Their real problem is with the Jews. If the Jews changed the name to Palestine and stayed in power, they would hate that just as much as they do Israel.

As long as anyone other than Muslims controls the country they'll seek to destroy it.

But yeah they also hate the Jews even those who have no connection to Israel.

[KingsGambit]

I actually think US Jews should support the state of Israel. Especially considering their history - disloyal? That is a bit harsh. Where I think Omar was questioning their loyalty to the US because of their loyalty to Israel. Trump was not questioning the US Jews' loyalty to America.

This is the kind of response that I have in mind. I think the case for Omar being anti-Semitic isn't quite as strong as assumed, though there are other arguments used. I think the term anti-Semitic gets thrown around too quickly when people legitimately criticize the actions of the nation of Israel. But there is a case to be made that the contexts are different between the two quotes, yes.

[Mountain Man]

Ilhan Omar was excoriated as anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews have a "dual loyalty" to Israel.

She said quite a bit more than that.

Omar and Tlaib’s anti-Semitism is unquestionable. They have in recent weeks 1) peddled the anti-Semitic canard that Jews have dual loyalty to Israel 2) expressed support for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, 3) alleged that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) bribes members of Congress, 4) Claimed that “Israel has hypnotized the world.” Statements from Omar and Tlaib on Israel are not labeled anti-Semitic because they are coming from Muslims, as Omar alleges. These statements are anti-Semitic because they are anti-Semitic.

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...isemitism.html

[Bill the Cat]

Ilhan Omar was excoriated as anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews have a "dual loyalty" to Israel.

How is that substantively any different from Trump's comment yesterday that "Any Jewish people that Vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty"?

Either American Jews have a loyalty to Israel or they do not, and either it is offensive to claim this or it is not.

The "dual loyalty" trope that Omar ran afoul of is not the same thing Trump is talking about. Omar's trope referred to loyalty to both governments, and choosing one or the other to support in a political instance at your leisure. Trump's comments referred to far left Democrats and their insistence that the US not provide ANY aid to Israel. Providing aid is not the same as having loyalty to a government.

[Bill the Cat]

"Dual loyalty" in itself is not a bad thing because Christians all have loyalty to the kingdom of God among all else, right? I get that it's a bit trickier with the US and Israel because they're both more in the same category of being actual countries.

No. Our loyalty is to heaven alone, and only to other things if they line up with the Kingdom. Dual loyalty indicates that you can choose one over the other at your convenience.

[KingsGambit]

No. Our loyalty is to heaven alone, and only to other things if they line up with the Kingdom. Dual loyalty indicates that you can choose one over the other at your convenience.

This would probably mean that the pledge of allegiance is off limits to Christians, then.

[Bill the Cat]

This would probably mean that the pledge of allegiance is off limits to Christians, then.

Not at all. The pledge doee not go counter to Christianity, and in fact shoes the subnordination of the US to God.