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Trump proclaims himself 'the chosen one' and tweets claims he is 'the messiah'

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]39298[/ATTACH]
    Again, are your debate skills so week you can only resort to mockery and cant make a legitimate case using the actual words spoken? There is no way what Obama said in that speech about waters stoping their rise was anything other or more than a reference to the fact his administration would take steps to combat AGW - unlike the previous admin or his opposition.

    Jim
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Yeah he just like to tell folks that because of him a how a light would shine down upon them and they would have an epiphany.
      Reference please. And do you mean obama or trump?
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Well of course you are. I never tried to tell you what you meant. I simply pointed out what you did.

        Jim
        Bovine faeces. Most of your "pointing out" required knowledge of why I was doing something, which you can't know unless I tell you. When I correct your erroneous assertion, you can no longer truthfully allege that you were "pointing out what {I} did". The only thing you got correct was that I used "TDS".

        I did not in any way, shape, or form dismiss your opinion because TDS. I pointed out that your opinion was evidence of TDS. Your opinion was rejected (not dismissed) because, after evaluation of it and the facts of the matter at hand, I determined that it did not in any way comport with reality, as far as I understand it. You are free to attempt to correct my understanding, but you'll need to start using fact thingies, not stridently spun emotion; I tend to dismiss argument from emotion as not worth listening to, because I prefer facts. You, as a scientist, should understand that.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          Reference please. And do you mean obama or trump?
          Obama.

          Since he liked saying it so often there are multiple versions.

          From The Village Voice:

          Source: Is Obama's Constitution Strong Enough?


          At an early-morning rally the day of the New Hampshire vote, he told some 300 students at the Dartmouth College gym: “My job this morning is to be so persuasive . . . that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack.



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source


          Ellipses in the original


          From the Colombia Journalism Review

          Source: Seeing the Light in South Carolina


          When the senator did arrive, he gave a pitch-perfect stump speech, surfing the enthusiasm of the pulsating gym. When he took the stage he said, "At some point in the evening, a light is going to shine down and you will have an epiphany and you’ll say, ‘I have to vote for Barack.’"

          If that epiphany never came, you couldn’t blame Obama. I’m not sure what more he could have done to make those people see the light.



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source




          From Slate:

          Source: Obama’s Cocky Messianism


          Inside the gym, packed to capacity with 2600 people, Obama was describing to the crowd how his speeches generally work: “At the end—or maybe somewhere in the middle—a shaft of light comes through and hits you and you experience an epiphany: I have to vote for Barack.”



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source




          From the CNN Political Tracker:

          Source: Obama, McCain win New Hampshire's first votes


          My job is to be so persuasive that if there’s anybody left out there who is still not sure whether they will vote, or is still not clear who they will vote for, that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany … and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama, the Democrat said in Hanover.


          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          Again, ellipses in the original.

          Interestingly the quote was quickly removed but can be seen in a Internet Archive version taken a few days later where "Roberto Davila-Loyola" responds to the quote in the comments as well as at Fair Proxy which reprinted the original unedited article.

          Any way a CNN transcript from CNN Newsroom records it in a video that they played of Obama saying it at another stop.

          Source: CNN Newsroom


          So I am going to try to be so persuasive in the 20 minutes or so that I speak that by the time this is over, a light will shine down from somewhere.

          It will light upon you. You will experience an epiphany. And you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack. I have to do it.



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          Note that these sources describe events in New Hampshire, South Carolina and Iowa, so it is something he repeatedly proclaimed.
          Last edited by rogue06; 08-24-2019, 11:55 AM.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            I pointed out that your opinion was evidence of TDS.
            Regardless of your protests - that sentence is itself the dismissal. It can be nothing else. TDS is a fake, manufactured 'mental illness' that only exists as a mockery of those that have serious and deep concerns about Donald Trump as president of the United States.

            If you want me (or anyone else) to think you have devoted more than 1 second to understanding the point and have a legitimate reason to disagree with them, it would be best not use that term in your replies.


            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Obama.

              Since he liked saying it so often there are multiple versions.

              From The Village Voice:

              Source: Is Obama's Constitution Strong Enough?


              At an early-morning rally the day of the New Hampshire vote, he told some 300 students at the Dartmouth College gym: “My job this morning is to be so persuasive . . . that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack.



              Source

              © Copyright Original Source


              Ellipses in the original


              From the Colombia Journalism Review

              Source: Seeing the Light in South Carolina


              When the senator did arrive, he gave a pitch-perfect stump speech, surfing the enthusiasm of the pulsating gym. When he took the stage he said, "At some point in the evening, a light is going to shine down and you will have an epiphany and you’ll say, ‘I have to vote for Barack.’"

              If that epiphany never came, you couldn’t blame Obama. I’m not sure what more he could have done to make those people see the light.



              Source

              © Copyright Original Source




              From Slate:

              Source: Obama’s Cocky Messianism


              Inside the gym, packed to capacity with 2600 people, Obama was describing to the crowd how his speeches generally work: “At the end—or maybe somewhere in the middle—a shaft of light comes through and hits you and you experience an epiphany: I have to vote for Barack.”



              Source

              © Copyright Original Source




              From the CNN Political Tracker:

              Source: Obama, McCain win New Hampshire's first votes


              My job is to be so persuasive that if there’s anybody left out there who is still not sure whether they will vote, or is still not clear who they will vote for, that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany … and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama, the Democrat said in Hanover.


              Source

              © Copyright Original Source



              Again, ellipses in the original.

              Interestingly the quote was quickly removed but can be seen in a Internet Archive version taken a few days later where "Roberto Davila-Loyola" responds to the quote in the comments as well as at Fair Proxy which reprinted the original unedited article.

              Any way a CNN transcript from CNN Newsroom records it in a video that they played of Obama saying it at another stop.

              Source: CNN Newsroom


              So I am going to try to be so persuasive in the 20 minutes or so that I speak that by the time this is over, a light will shine down from somewhere.

              It will light upon you. You will experience an epiphany. And you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack. I have to do it.



              Source

              © Copyright Original Source



              Note that these sources describe events in New Hampshire, South Carolina and Iowa, so it is something he repeatedly proclaimed.
              That is interesting. Thanks for the research and the information. I agree it's an odd sort of thing to say, and I can see how you would view it as an indirect reference to some sort of messiah like reference, indeed much of the news media played on it in those terms.

              It still pales in comparison to Trump's direct claim to be 'the chosen one' and tweeting of the the fellow praising him as a Messiah. If you were less closed minded, more prone to listening than to mockery at this point in this discussion, I would take the time to explain why I see things that way, but the reality is if I tried to explain why I see it that way, you (and likely others) would simply ignore the content and search out some snip-it out of context to mock. Once people start pulling out pictures of spinning tops and face-palms the discussion is mostly over.



              Jim
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 08-24-2019, 12:09 PM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                Then why would you not favor the only POTUS in decades who has actually taken overt actions to oppose China?
                Great question.
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  That is interesting. Thanks for the research and the information. I agree it's an odd sort of thing to say, and I can see how you would view it as an indirect reference to some sort of messiah like reference, indeed much of the news media played on it in those terms.
                  The MSM were some of the biggest supporters of his being some sort of Messiah

                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  It still pales in comparison to Trump's direct claim to be 'the chosen one' and tweeting of the the fellow praising him as a Messiah. If you were less closed minded, more prone to listening than to mockery at this point in this discussion, I would take the time to explain why I see things that way, but the reality is if I tried to explain why I see it that way, you (and likely others) would simply ignore the content and search out some snip-it out of context to mock. Once people start pulling out pictures of spinning tops and face-palms the discussion is mostly over.
                  When even Snopes calls B.S. on the Trump calling himself the "chosen one" being a serious statement and not done "tongue-in-cheek" (their description) even you should pay attention.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Regardless of your protests - that sentence is itself the dismissal. It can be nothing else. TDS is a fake, manufactured 'mental illness' that only exists as a mockery of those that have serious and deep concerns about Donald Trump as president of the United States.

                    If you want me (or anyone else) to think you have devoted more than 1 second to understanding the point and have a legitimate reason to disagree with them, it would be best not use that term in your replies.


                    Jim
                    Your false assertion is duly noted, as is your inability to understand the term or how I used it. I do not appreciate being told, in so many words, that I'm lying. Can you handle the truth? Then prove it.

                    You need to persuade me with fact thingies, Jim. Appeals to emotion and redefining terms to mean what you want them to mean is not going to be persuasive. I've given up on trying to help you understand - I was merely, with my last post, explaining to others what my thought processes were.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      The MSM were some of the biggest supporters of his being some sort of Messiah


                      When even Snopes calls B.S. on the Trump calling himself the "chosen one" being a serious statement and not done "tongue-in-cheek" (their description) even you should pay attention.
                      Even me?

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Your false assertion is duly noted, as is your inability to understand the term or how I used it. I do not appreciate being told, in so many words, that I'm lying. Can you handle the truth? Then prove it.

                        You need to persuade me with fact thingies, Jim. Appeals to emotion and redefining terms to mean what you want them to mean is not going to be persuasive. I've given up on trying to help you understand - I was merely, with my last post, explaining to others what my thought processes were.
                        Im done with you in this thread. This is getting personal, and i will not go there anymore.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Source: Obama nomination speech


                          The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge -- I face this challenge with profound humility and knowledge of my own limitations, but I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people.

                          Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that, generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless...

                          (APPLAUSE)

                          ... this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal...

                          (APPLAUSE)

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Reading what Obama said in full, I am a bit disgusted in the fact you've tried to characterize what is a hopeful, positive speech in such base and degrading terms.

                          He is not characterizing himself in proud terms. He is talking about his hope for what the ideas he stands for can accomplish in the world. He begins the list of his hopes for what can be accomplished with a recognition of the fact he can not do it alone, that he is limited, and the task is daunting.

                          But this is his hope and belief in what is possible as the people that support him work together for good things in the world.


                          There is no comparison between this and the destructive, hostile, me-centric rhetoric of Donald Trump. And there is NO comparison between what Obama was saying then and Trump's proclamation of himself now as 'the chosen one'



                          Jim
                          Yeah, watching the video, I agree that that Obama speech is fantastic, and isn't the messiah-making speech that folks are making it out to be. Very inspiring stuff, and I'm not even particularly a fan of the guy.

                          I disagree about the hullabaloo concerning Trump's "chosen one" statement. While he is certainly a braggart, and there are plenty of other statements from him that can be used to make that case, I just took his "chosen one" statement as an offhand figure of speech. It wasn't intended to take on real messianic overtones. It's the sort of statement that's become secularized in this day and age where more people probably connect it to Neo from the Matrix than they do Jesus of Nazareth. The poor shlub in the office who is sent by corporate to fix the mess in Florida might comment, "great, looks like I'm 'the chosen one.'"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            That is interesting. Thanks for the research and the information. I agree it's an odd sort of thing to say, and I can see how you would view it as an indirect reference to some sort of messiah like reference, indeed much of the news media played on it in those terms.
                            I'd like to see those comments taken into context in a speech. "A light coming down" phrasing doesn't strike me as especially Messianic. It's not much different than saying something like, "a light bulb will go on above your head."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              I'd like to see those comments taken into context in a speech. "A light coming down" phrasing doesn't strike me as especially Messianic. It's not much different than saying something like, "a light bulb will go on above your head."
                              I think that's the point -- when Obama spoke in terms that could remotely be considered "Messianic", the media and celebrities fell all over themselves in near worship.

                              When Trump uses a phrase indicating he's the "chose one" to deal with a specific problem, they're ready to drag him outside the gates and stone him.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                                I'd like to see those comments taken into context in a speech. "A light coming down" phrasing doesn't strike me as especially Messianic. It's not much different than saying something like, "a light bulb will go on above your head."
                                I take it as him saying that his ideas are right and good, but it is up to him to express them in a way that helps others to realize it. But he uses language that can imply God or heaven itself is the one opening the eyes of the person to help them see that his ideas are true. So he is clearly seeing himself as a messenger of absolute truth, and I can see that would be very concerning to those that don't see his message that way.

                                But its still at least a few steps down from embracing and internalizing the idea one is 'the chosen one'. And Obama in general is approaching all of these things as a group effort, with himself occupying more of a civil servant role in implementing these things, as opposed to Trump's view of himself as THE implementer and mover, a king like point of view.

                                One can also argue for each it is figurative language and does not reflect actual beliefs about themselves, but no matter how you slice it, Trump takes it farther. And Trump discards all the baggage of it being some sort of group effort, always edging more and more towards a supreme ruler conceptualization of the presidency.

                                Jim
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 08-24-2019, 09:17 PM.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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