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  • #31
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    Trying to avoid stigmatization is a good idea if rehabilitation is the goal.
    I trust that you'll avoid terms like "racist," "Nazi," "white supremacist," etc., given this reasoning.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
      I trust that you'll avoid terms like "racist," "Nazi," "white supremacist," etc., given this reasoning.
      But all those are legitimate synonyms for Trump and those who voted for him. At least that's what CNN told me.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Hmmm... the law says that convicted felons can't vote it says nothing about "justice involved persons." Sounds like the Dems are trying to expand their voter base.
        State law would supersede city law (and definitions thereof) so presumably SF's silly definitions wouldn't be applicable in voting.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #34
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          State law would supersede city law (and definitions thereof) so presumably SF's silly definitions wouldn't be applicable in voting.
          Well, depends - might be at the city level - I'm not familiar with California's enfranchisement laws (and don't wanna know) so it's possible (even though unlikely).

          More likely they are hoping to influence the rest of the state.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
            I trust that you'll avoid terms like "racist," "Nazi," "white supremacist," etc., given this reasoning.
            Your trust is misplaced.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

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            • #36
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              Your trust is misplaced.
              Pssst! Your hypocrisy is showing!
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

              Comment


              • #37
                I think ex-felons should be allowed to vote anyway. Once you've paid your debt to society, I see no reason why your constitutional rights should be restored. You're sentenced to ten years in prison, not ten years plus being a second class citizen for the rest of your life. (I know the text of the Fifteenth Amendment allows for this practice, but I'm thinking philosophically).

                San Francisco's policy here is absolutely insane, though.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  I think ex-felons should be allowed to vote anyway. Once you've paid your debt to society, I see no reason why your constitutional rights should be restored. You're sentenced to ten years in prison, not ten years plus being a second class citizen for the rest of your life. (I know the text of the Fifteenth Amendment allows for this practice, but I'm thinking philosophically).

                  San Francisco's policy here is absolutely insane, though.
                  I think they should have a means to have rights restored - but not be granted them until they have demonstrated they can function as law abiding citizens. Because if they can't, it's in their best interest to vote against any enforcement of law. This is a real thing and has destroyed communities where voters have become either too wary or contemptuous of law enforcement.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    I think they should have a means to have rights restored - but not be granted them until they have demonstrated they can function as law abiding citizens. Because if they can't, it's in their best interest to vote against any enforcement of law. This is a real thing and has destroyed communities where voters have become either too wary or contemptuous of law enforcement.
                    It's a reasonable stance. At the very least, there needs to be some sort of method for restoration. The status quo in some states of having to beg an outgoing president to pardon you isn't viable.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      I think ex-felons should be allowed to vote anyway. Once you've paid your debt to society, I see no reason why your constitutional rights should be restored. You're sentenced to ten years in prison, not ten years plus being a second class citizen for the rest of your life. (I know the text of the Fifteenth Amendment allows for this practice, but I'm thinking philosophically).

                      San Francisco's policy here is absolutely insane, though.
                      Do you think they should also have their right to own firearms restored as well?

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Do you think they should also have their right to own firearms restored as well?
                        No, but the Second Amendment is written relatively broadly. I interpret it to refer to protecting the general right of gun ownership and not necessarily of each individual citizen, so I believe that current laws restricting felon ownership still are compatible with the spirit of the Constitution. I'd restrict it to violent felons, though. There's no reason somebody convicted of felony fraud shouldn't be able to have a gun.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Do you think they should also have their right to own firearms restored as well?
                          I do - but only grudgingly because I'm trying to avoid blatant hypocrisy...

                          But under the same caveat as I mentioned for voting rights. Full membership in society is granted only once - thereafter it must be earned.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                            But under the same caveat as I mentioned for voting rights. Full membership in society is granted only once - thereafter it must be earned.
                            I will admit that this creates a viable philosophical case for not automatically restoring voting rights.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                              thief = unlicensed borrower
                              Can we just call a bank robbery a "surprise withdrawal"?

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                              • #45
                                I know at least one person in AZ who calls prisons "secure care"
                                Last edited by Celebrian; 08-22-2019, 10:43 PM.

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