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Am I Wrong In Thinking that Sam is Defending the 1619 America Slavery Essays?

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  • Am I Wrong In Thinking that Sam is Defending the 1619 America Slavery Essays?

    In a thread here, Sam appears to be defending a collection of journalist essays called The 1619 Project found in The New York Times Magazines. He argues that he is only defending those essays that he has read, yet also points out early on in the thread that he has not read the essays in question, but is working through them as the thread continues. In addition, Sam argues that if Christians wish to live up to a standard of public conduct, they should NOT opine about essays unless they've thoroughly combed through them themselves (skimming through articles is apparently not up to Christian standards).

    The essays can be found here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...a-slavery.html
    8
    Yes
    25.00%
    2
    No
    75.00%
    6
    Last edited by Adrift; 08-23-2019, 10:37 PM.

  • #2
    I've gotten A's on tests where I skimmed the book. In fact, in one graduate class, out of twelve books we read, the only B I got was on the book that I had actually read cover to cover!

    Yes, he's defending the series - to be fair, all I saw him defend specifically was that first one which he'd already read.

    But I had no problem finding the factual errors and the anachronisms in the section I read which you had spotted skimming it whereas Sam didn't know what you were referring to.



    What's weird is that he didn't defend any of the errors I mentioned - he attacked minor points.





    Edit: FYI - don't word survey questions negatively - people have to think about whether the answer should be yes or no. In this case, no agrees with you - making a negative agreement can easily confuse respondents.

    PS: I've been thinking a lot about survey research lately so that's why it stood out to me. Feel free to ignore!
    Last edited by Teallaura; 08-23-2019, 10:51 PM.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      I've gotten A's on tests where I skimmed the book. In fact, in one graduate class, out of twelve books we read, the only B I got was on the book that I had actually read cover to cover!

      Yes, he's defending the series - to be fair, all I saw him defend specifically was that first one which he'd already read.

      But I had no problem finding the factual errors and the anachronisms in the section I read which you had spotted skimming it whereas Sam didn't know what you were referring to.



      What's weird is that he didn't defend any of the errors I mentioned - he attacked minor points.





      Edit: FYI - don't word survey questions negatively - people have to think about whether the answer should be yes or no. In this case, no agrees with you - making a negative agreement can easily confuse respondents.

      PS: I've been thinking a lot about survey research lately so that's why it stood out to me. Feel free to ignore!
      Good points, but I think that Sam's combative attitude from his very first post can be thought of as defending the essays in general. His subsequent posts only reinforce that view.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Edit: FYI - don't word survey questions negatively - people have to think about whether the answer should be yes or no. In this case, no agrees with you - making a negative agreement can easily confuse respondents.

        PS: I've been thinking a lot about survey research lately so that's why it stood out to me. Feel free to ignore!
        Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. Lesson learned for the next survey.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          I've gotten A's on tests where I skimmed the book. In fact, in one graduate class, out of twelve books we read, the only B I got was on the book that I had actually read cover to cover!
          Amateur. I once got an A for a book I never even saw.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Amateur. I once got an A for a book I never even saw.
            Pfft. I got the poll right without so much as reading the whole question.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              In a thread here, Sam appears to be defending a collection of journalist essays called The 1619 Project found in The New York Times Magazines. He argues that he is only defending those essays that he has read, yet also points out early on in the thread that he has not read the essays in question, but is working through them as the thread continues. In addition, Sam argues that if Christians wish to live up to a standard of public conduct, they should NOT opine about essays unless they've thoroughly combed through them themselves (skimming through articles is apparently not up to Christian standards).

              The essays can be found here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...a-slavery.html
              I would disagree with your negative characterization of his mention of what could be expected of a Christian. A Christian is a person that among other things should be committed to integrity and justice. And so it is reasonable to expect a Christian not to offer opinions about a written text they have not read, because to do so is to color other peoples thinking on them without first understanding their content.

              He is not saying that as a Biblical injunction, but rather as a logical extension of the basic moral principles a Christian is committed to upholding. 'Gossip' however would be a broad category such actions could be placed under in the sense of spreading unfounded or potentially hurtful stories about another person, and Gossip is forbidden.

              To this point, I see Sam only defending ideas people have taken exception to that are found in the essays he has read so far. I don't seem him anywhere offering any unqualified or over-arching opinions of the papers as a whole.


              Jim
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 08-24-2019, 08:27 AM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                Pfft. I got the poll right without so much as reading the whole question.
                One sentence which you read part of versus a whole book that I never saw.

                And you were bragging

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  One sentence which you read part of versus a whole book that I never saw.

                  And you were bragging
                  Oh please, it's a LOT easier to ignore a whole book.

                  This is NOT up for debate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                    Oh please, it's a LOT easier to ignore a whole book.

                    This is NOT up for debate.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      I would disagree with your negative characterization of his mention of what could be expected of a Christian. A Christian is a person that among other things should be committed to integrity and justice. And so it is reasonable to expect a Christian not to offer opinions about a written text they have not read, because to do so is to color other peoples thinking on them without first understanding their content.
                      So, in our discussion, the issue isn't that I haven't read the articles, I simply haven't read them in depth. I felt I got the gist and passed judgement based on a summary read. I don't think there's anything particularly unChristian about that (I think one's faith on this subject is largely immaterial), and I can think of a number of writings that would not require a reader to sit down and read the entirety before concluding, "yeah, this author is not on the level," or passing judgment that it's racist drivel, or propaganda, or what have you.

                      But thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll take them into consideration.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        So, in our discussion, the issue isn't that I haven't read the articles, I simply haven't read them in depth. I felt I got the gist and passed judgement based on a summary read. I don't think there's anything particularly unChristian about that (I think one's faith on this subject is largely immaterial), and I can think of a number of writings that would not require a reader to sit down and read the entirety before concluding, "yeah, this author is not on the level," or passing judgment that it's racist drivel, or propaganda, or what have you.

                        But thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll take them into consideration.

                        Honestly, if you can't get the gist from the intro and conclusion, it's probably not worth reading.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Honestly, if you can't get the gist from the intro and conclusion, it's probably not worth reading.
                          Right. I mean, I suppose I could think of types of literature where this might not be the case, but in this particular case we're talking relatively short opinion-piece essays.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            Right. I mean, I suppose I could think of types of literature where this might not be the case, but in this particular case we're talking relatively short opinion-piece essays.
                            I apologized to Sam for battles past, and promised to be more civil. That said, I can't really see his point at all, which is why I dropped out of the discussion in that thread. It seems, to see what he sees, he has to approach it with a hefty dose of prejudice.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I apologized to Sam for battles past, and promised to be more civil. That said, I can't really see his point at all, which is why I dropped out of the discussion in that thread. It seems, to see what he sees, he has to approach it with a hefty dose of prejudice.
                              Understood. I suppose we all come to the table with a certain amount of bias, no matter how hard we strive for objectivity. Getting past that is the most difficult part of effective conversation.

                              Comment

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