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Thread: ‘Global Temperature’ — Why Should We Trust A Statistic That Might Not Even Exist?

  1. #201
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    As has been discussed, the average temperature represents an average thermal energy level in the atmosphere itself
    Is that true? I think the heat capacity of gasses varies with things like pressure, temperature and humidity.
    (e.g. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...ity-d_705.html
    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...es-d_1535.html)

    And I pointed out earlier in this thread that when you have system containing non-uniform heat capacity, then you can have situations where average temperature and amount of thermal energy can even move in opposite directions.

    So, because the atmosphere is not homogeneous, I think we need additional steps to know what is the actual relation between average temperature and the thermal content of the atmosphere.

    In effect then, since the ocean, especially at depth, responds much more slowly, it requires a real, long term change in the average atmospheric temperature for it to react at depth...That is, the actual average air temperature MUST be getting warmer over the entire planet on average for heat transfer into the oceans from the surface air interface (and then later at depth) to occur.
    I thought (as in the article I posted earlier in this thread) that the explanation for the hiatus in atmospheric warming was that the ocean depths were warming instead of the atmosphere (and ocean surface) warming, not because of the atmospheric warming.

  2. #202
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    from the Hawaii article:

    Attachment 39679

    As you can see, we are seeing the warmest ocean temperatures since 1854 almost all grouped together in the last 2 decades.
    I know this is the pettiest of complaints, but I still need to say it...

    Why in the world is that graph in reverse timeline? The standard is that the left-most bar is the earliest and the right-most bar is the most recent, i.e. it moves from oldest to newest, left to right. It goes against every convention to do it the opposite and put the most recent on the left side, and just makes it look weird.

  3. #203
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    I know this is the pettiest of complaints, but I still need to say it...

    Why in the world is that graph in reverse timeline? The standard is that the left-most bar is the earliest and the right-most bar is the most recent, i.e. it moves from oldest to newest, left to right. It goes against every convention to do it the opposite and put the most recent on the left side, and just makes it look weird.
    I would like to know why it is measuring surface temperature which would be mostly affected by things like sunshine, and air temp. If we are looking at how much of a heat sink the oceans are, I would think we should be measuring the temperature below the surface and averaging that. But maybe I am missing something?

  4. #204
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I would like to know why it is measuring surface temperature which would be mostly affected by things like sunshine, and air temp. If we are looking at how much of a heat sink the oceans are, I would think we should be measuring the temperature below the surface and averaging that. But maybe I am missing something?
    Here is a pretty good set of articles with information about sea surface measurement. But surface doesn't necessarily mean the first inch, or even feet, it refers to a depth of up to 10 meters (33 ft). At 10 meters there is little to no variation due to the day/night cycle, with the most variation occurring around the first millimeter - about 2.5 degrees. Solar infrared doesn't penetrate very deep into the ocean, so the actual amount of direct warming from the sun is not all that much, even at the surface.

    https://skepticalscience.com/ocean_t...ure_part1.html

    https://skepticalscience.com/ocean_temperature_part2.html


    And there are programs such as ARGO which are looking at temperatures down to a depth of 2000m, but there is nothing like a record from 1854 to work with.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  5. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.

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