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‘Global Temperature’ — Why Should We Trust A Statistic That Might Not Even Exist?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I thought that much was patently obvious. But I guess when you've got less of a sense of humor than a militant third wave feminist...

    So why were you supporting pseudoscience?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      Define ‘rapid’ because we know the earth has had some pretty sudden and fast changes throughout its history. This isn’t even the biggest change the atmosphere had undergone. The biggest would likely fall under the oxygenation of atmosphere (which caused a mass extinction event). The problem with your claim of an ‘equilibrium’ is that earth’s climate isn’t static and has never been static. It’s always changing.



      As I pointed out above, there’s no such thing because earths climate isn’t nor has ever been static. Earth’s climate has changed tons just in the past 1000 years and it will change again. It’s how it has always worked.
      The system will always move towards equilibrium even if that point of equilibrium is always moving slightly. The current direction of movement is towards a higher temperature for the reasons already explained. It makes no difference that past climates have seen other extremes. The atmosphere’s tog rating is going up.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

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      • #63
        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        The system will always move towards equilibrium even if that point of equilibrium is always moving slightly. The current direction of movement is towards a higher temperature for the reasons already explained. It makes no difference that past climates have seen other extremes. The atmosphere’s tog rating is going up.
        Technically you’re right, but the problem is that the earth’s climate has never reached a point of equilibrium and is always changing. There’s good evidence that shows tropic zones existed as far North as modern day Alaska and glaciers existed at the equator. The climate is not nor will be, static.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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        • #64
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Technically you’re right, but the problem is that the earth’s climate has never reached a point of equilibrium and is always changing. There’s good evidence that shows tropic zones existed as far North as modern day Alaska and glaciers existed at the equator. The climate is not nor will be, static.
          sun.jpeg
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            [ATTACH=CONFIG]39387[/ATTACH]
            We could also point out the sun is steadily getting hotter.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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            • #66
              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              We could also point out the sun is steadily getting hotter.
              Perhaps the environmental activists can find the thermostat to dial it down a wee bit.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Technically you’re right, but the problem is that the earth’s climate has never reached a point of equilibrium and is always changing. There’s good evidence that shows tropic zones existed as far North as modern day Alaska and glaciers existed at the equator. The climate is not nor will be, static.
                I am not saying that equilibrium conditions are static. We know that because the earth itself, even the rocks are not static, and plants and animals change the environment. For example, if the Arctic ice cap melts, less radiation is reflected off the surface because it is darker in colour; the ground or the water warms up, and as it does, it radiates more energy into space, until once again the planet radiates as much as it absorbs, but at a now higher temperature. There is a lag, but that is the direction the system will go.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  I am not saying that equilibrium conditions are static. We know that because the earth itself, even the rocks are not static, and plants and animals change the environment. For example, if the Arctic ice cap melts, less radiation is reflected off the surface because it is darker in colour; the ground or the water warms up, and as it does, it radiates more energy into space, until once again the planet radiates as much as it absorbs, but at a now higher temperature. There is a lag, but that is the direction the system will go.
                  True to a degree, but there’s a bit more factors that come into play, such as the jet streams and ocean currents. Warming can slow these processes down or even stop them, which can lead to increased glacier forming, even as the earth warms up in other areas.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    True to a degree, but there’s a bit more factors that come into play, such as the jet streams and ocean currents. Warming can slow these processes down or even stop them, which can lead to increased glacier forming, even as the earth warms up in other areas.
                    I agree.
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      There is an overall energy balance and the system will adjust its equilibrium ‘temperature’ as circumstances demand. So, the atmosphere is like an insulating blanket and the surface of the earth has to be hotter than it would otherwise be, without an atmosphere, so that this energy balance in maintained. Now, if you change the insulating properties of the atmosphere, make it more insulating by the addition of ‘greenhouse’ gases, the surface temperature has to increase to reach the new equilibrium.

                      Predicting surface temperatures is difficult because of the complexity of the earth’s surface and the dynamics of the atmosphere and the oceans. Measurements are subject to all sorts of potential errors and difficulties but they are good enough to bear witness to the predicted trends. To make sense of the details you need to grasp the fundamentals, and that is understanding how the atmosphere works as insulation. That part is not controversial and it tells you unambiguously that the biosphere must be warming.
                      FF2, let's assume I grant all of that - what does it have to do with the external validity of using an average as a metric for a highly complex system? From what I can see, all you've done with this post is SUPPORT MY ARGUMENT.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Well I have seen various highs and lows as far as Maximum temperatures on the moon, so I could calculate the average temperature of the moon from anywhere of -30F to +40F, just by picking and choosing which max/min temperatures to use, but that really doesn't tell you anything, as you would be hard pressed to actually find 10F on the moon anywhere. And the surface temperature varies on the lit side depending on the latitude also. Averages don't really help when you can just play with the data and get a wide range of "averages" - and if you can do it so easily on the moon, imagine the margin of error on the Earth, a planet with actual weather?
                        No - you couldn't. But that you think you could is informative. That lack of comprehension here is getting somewhat mind boggling. Why are you guys making yourselves stupid just to support the idea AGW is a farce? I know you are not ignorant enough to think what you just said makes any sense at all - right Sparko? Come on, lets try to at least argue at the level of what we know.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]39378[/ATTACH]
                          <rubs eyes>

                          Obviously, I got up too early this afternoon.

                          Okay, so how do you read a bloomers graph? Must be a guy thing...
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            <rubs eyes>

                            Obviously, I got up too early this afternoon.

                            Okay, so how do you read a bloomers graph? Must be a guy thing...
                            The size of bloomers goes down as the temperature goes up over time.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Well I have seen various highs and lows as far as Maximum temperatures on the moon, so I could calculate the average temperature of the moon from anywhere of -30F to +40F, just by picking and choosing which max/min temperatures to use, but that really doesn't tell you anything, as you would be hard pressed to actually find 10F on the moon anywhere. And the surface temperature varies on the lit side depending on the latitude also. Averages don't really help when you can just play with the data and get a wide range of "averages" - and if you can do it so easily on the moon, imagine the margin of error on the Earth, a planet with actual weather?
                              ^Yeah, that.

                              I don't even see using the median for this - it's not really telling you anything. Tells you nothing about temperature or energy ( Was that what FF2 was on about?) because it's the center of a mess of varying categories (here climates or climate zones). A mean (grudgingly allowing this) or a median might be useful within a given category - but not crossing a number of them.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Except that wasn't 'pseudo-science', Jim. It was a JOKE.
                                Wait, were we supposed to take the bloomers graph seriously?

                                Dang, I need coffee...

                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

                                Comment

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