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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    I was joking...
    Why would you joke about something so blasphemous to begin with?
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      I'm not sure I quite understand the question. Jesus is a person in the Godhead. Ben Witherington goes into this a bit in Psalms Old and New: Exegesis, Intertextuality, and Hermeneutics
      "Jesus has modified the thought in the psalm, which does not depict Yahweh as a female creature, so that on Jesus's lips it now reads "Jerusalem, Jerusalem . . . how often have I desired to gather your children as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!" Contrast this with "his pinions under his wings" in the psalm. This is because Jesus is presenting himself as Wisdom/Hokma, a female figure here, in contrast to Yahweh, a male figure."
      Well, sure, but you yourself made the point that in His incarnate form, He was male, yes? I don't think it's wrong to distinguish between the Person of the Godhead who took on flesh while He was on the earth and the pre-existant Christ.

      I think you're going a bit overboard - to have a feminine quality doesn't necessarily mean you are presenting yourself as a female figure.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        So is saying that God is our father, though.
        Sure, and?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Again, evolution is what it is, but that god did it is simply your desired belief. I'm sure that if a god existed and wanted us to know with certainty of his/her/its existence, then with certainty we'd know. Don't you think!
          That God didn't direct it is your desired belief.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Better go re-read them.
            Read them first - they support Seer's case, not yours.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Well, sure, but you yourself made the point that in His incarnate form, He was male, yes? I don't think it's wrong to distinguish between the Person of the Godhead who took on flesh while He was on the earth and the pre-existant Christ.
              But in that prophetic speech to the Pharisees, was Jesus referring to himself in the incarnate form, or was he referring to himself in his pre-incarnate form as a member of the Godhead? I think the fact that he's drawing on Wisdom language, the clear reference back to Psalm 91:4, and Jerusalem's killing of its prophets seems to suggest as much.

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I think you're going a bit overboard - to have a feminine quality doesn't necessarily mean you are presenting yourself as a female figure.
              If I'm going overboard, then I'm in good company with the likes of Ben Witherington.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Even so, that passage says "you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live." That warning would make no sense if there was literally nothing possible to see.
                Unless only spirit can 'see' spirit. In which case, to 'see' God requires ditching that body first - usually referred to as 'being dead'.

                And we commonly use sight for an analogy of experiencing things that can't actually be seen, like the future.



                Helping!!
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • Edited by a Moderator
                  Last edited by DesertBerean; 09-06-2019, 11:56 PM.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    No, I misspoke pretty badly. There are too many NT Scriptures that maintain that God is spirit in form. I believe these Old Testament manifestations in physical form nonetheless did represent God as opposed to being written off as anthromorphisms.
                    Oh yeah, fix it before my answer!!!















                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                      But in that prophetic speech to the Pharisees, was Jesus referring to himself in the incarnate form, or was he referring to himself in his pre-incarnate form as a member of the Godhead? I think the fact that he's drawing on Wisdom language, the clear reference back to Psalm 91:4, and Jerusalem's killing of its prophets seems to suggest as much.



                      If I'm going overboard, then I'm in good company with the likes of Ben Witherington.
                      Cool.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                        • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Why would you joke about something so blasphemous to begin with?
                          Because I say stupid things?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Because I say stupid things?
                            At times, but I don't think it's intended.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              sure.

                              First let's see what Seer said:



                              You then said,



                              Now let's look at the verses you quoted:

                              Gen 7:5-6
                              5 And Noah did all that the Lord commanded him. 6 Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters engulfed the earth

                              [5- Noah does good. Not sure what verse 6 has to do with it]

                              Gen 9:21 When he drank some of the wine, he got drunk and uncovered himself inside his tent.
                              [Noah does bad]

                              How does that disagree with what Seer said that man has an inherent nature to do bad (and good?)
                              You are correct, I posted the wrong passage. I meant Genesis 6:5-6

                              "When the lord found how great was mans wickedness on earth, and how no desire his heart conceived was ever anything but evil he regretted that he had made man on earth, and his heart was grieved."

                              And Genesis 8:21

                              "Never again will I doom the earth because of man, [since the desires of mans heart are evil from the start, nor will I ever again strike down all living beings, as I have done."

                              Which poses a few questions regarding this god himself. If man is evil from the start, then whose fault is that, and didn't god, the omniscient, know that would be the case before he created them. God was sorry he created man, and then he was sorry he murdered them all. Doesn't say much for gods "omniscience."

                              But the main point I made to seer was that the biblical god disagreed with him about mans moral character.
                              Last edited by JimL; 09-06-2019, 06:01 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                No, like what a supremely Creator had the ability to do.
                                But seer, a supreme creator need have nothing to do with the rules of nature as we know them in order to puff a universe into existence out of nothing. The laws and constants that you go on about would need already exist and be known by an intelligent creator in order that an intelligent creator create according to those laws and constants. Are you suggesting that god followed the existing natural laws, the specs if you will, when creating the universe?



                                And remember Jim there are scientists suggesting the the universe was created from LITERALLY nothing. I'm glad science is finally catching up!
                                That doesn't help your argument. Your argument is that the creation of the universe requires intelligence. But then the question becomes, intelligence of what? If there was nothing, then there was nothing to be known, there were no laws or constants. So, your idea of intelligent creation doesn't make sense in the first place.

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