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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    You mean "couldn't have accomplished without the" laws of nature. That nature need be directed is your belief simply because you, like all theists, just can't face the reality that you are no different than the rest of temporal existence and will some day pass away.
    Well that was helpful...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      The God we serve is not just omniscient, but omnipotent - all-powerful. Such a God knows all there is to know, and all that will ever be, and has created all there is.
      The natural laws had to in some sense already exist in order that a god utilize them for creation, otherwise laws wouldn't even be needed for a god to create. Your only argument would be that the natural laws are eternal with the mind of god, and that's why he knows them, but again, if the natural laws are eternal, it would render the god unecessary.
      Last edited by JimL; 09-08-2019, 07:19 PM.

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      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        Shuny, I used your own link, there are different beliefs on how much God intervened or not within Theistic Evolution. But here is the question, your religion teaches that evolution is God directed. Do you agree with that?
        Yes, of course, and that is not issue in the difference between Theistic Evolution and Intelligent Design. No there are not many different views within the concept of Theistic Evolution as defined. Basically Theistic Evolution recognizes that Creation takes place in complete harmony with how the knowledge of science describes evolution and the history of our physical existence. God Creates through natural methods. It is a matter of fact of your years of posts you do not accept this. and as referenced Intelligent Design does not accept this either.
        Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-08-2019, 08:23 PM.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          The natural laws had to in some sense already exist in order that a god utilize them for creation, otherwise laws wouldn't even be needed for a god to create. Your only argument would be that the natural laws are eternal with the mind of god, and that's why he knows them, but again, if the natural laws are eternal, it would render the god unecessary.
          No
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            The God we serve is not just omniscient, but omnipotent - all-powerful. Such a God knows all there is to know, and all that will ever be, and has created all there is.
            Certainly, many religions believe this. But then the religions evolved before the advent of scientific methodology. The latter is better placed to explore such questions as the origins of the universe than the unsubstantiated ‘god did it’ formula of the religions.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              No
              Yes

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              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Yes, of course, and that is not issue in the difference between Theistic Evolution and Intelligent Design. No there are not many different views within the concept of Theistic Evolution as defined. Basically Theistic Evolution recognizes that Creation takes place in complete harmony with how the knowledge of science describes evolution and the history of our physical existence. God Creates through natural methods. It is a matter of fact of your years of posts you do not accept this. and as referenced Intelligent Design does not accept this either.
                Then Shuny, if God directs the evolutionary process then it could not have happened on its own. Nature with out that Divine direction could not have done it. You agree?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Certainly, many religions believe this. But then the religions evolved before the advent of scientific methodology. The latter is better placed to explore such questions as the origins of the universe than the unsubstantiated ‘god did it’ formula of the religions.
                  You are certainly entitled to be wrong.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Then Shuny, if God directs the evolutionary process then it could not have happened on its own. Nature with out that Divine direction could not have done it. You agree?
                    If god creates according to natural processes, as shuny contends, then the natural processes, laws etc., already existed thus leaving a creator unecessary. Nature without divine intervention follows it's own direction.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      If god creates according to natural processes, as shuny contends, then the natural processes, laws etc., already existed thus leaving a creator unecessary. Nature without divine intervention follows it's own direction.
                      You are arguing for an impotent God, rather than an omnipotent one.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        You are arguing for an impotent God, rather than an omnipotent one.
                        No. I'm arguing that an existing natural law leaves unnecessary the need for a creator, or director thereof.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          No. I'm arguing that an existing natural law leaves unnecessary the need for a creator, or director thereof.
                          So where did natural law come from? Your mythical Cosmos that you have no evidence for?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            So where did natural law come from? Your mythical Cosmos that you have no evidence for?
                            ANYTHING to eliminate the need for God.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              So where did natural law come from? Your mythical Cosmos that you have no evidence for?
                              Well, as far as I can see the laws must needs be eternal whether existing naturally or in the mind of god, but the fact that they exist eternally at all would make god (as utilizer) unecessary since being that they exist they don't need to be utilized, they function naturally on their own.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                ANYTHING to eliminate the need for God.
                                And his 'Cosmos,' is all powerful (creates multiple universes), is outside time and space and is eternal. Funny, sounds like the attributes of the Christian God...
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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