Original sin

[shunyadragon]

God. The only One Who is truly good.

God being the 'One Who is truly good' does equate to the belief that humans are 'stained by evil' with original sin due to the the very fallible human acts by Adam and Eve cursing all of humanity to commit evil acts.

Question: Before they committed the 'deadly sin' Were Adam and Eve good, how good?

I believe that the concept of the 'Fall' and Original Sin' were the result of the need for humans to explain a violent imperfect world that should have been 'perfect' without sin Created by God. The blame was placed on a mythical belief in Adam and Eve as the 'scapegoats' evolved from ancient Sumerian mythology found in cuneiform tablets.

[seer]

I believe that the concept of the 'Fall' and Original Sin' were the result of the need for humans to explain a violent imperfect world that should have been 'perfect' without sin Created by God. The blame was placed on a mythical belief in Adam and Eve as the 'scapegoats' evolved from ancient Sumerian mythology found in cuneiform tablets.

Well if human beings are not responsible for our sin and evil who is. And can you link this Sumerian thing you are taking about?

[shunyadragon]

Well if human beings are not responsible for our sin and evil who is.

Simply the nature of our physical existence, and the nature of our human nature as it is was Created by God as is. It is bizzare to believe God Created a flawed Creation that needed to corrected, because of the actions and failure of fallible humans.

And can you link this Sumerian thing you are taking about?

The Sumerian Creation myth including the world flood was recorded in cuneiform tablets as:

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth

The earliest record of a Sumerian creation myth, called The Eridu Genesis by historian Thorkild Jacobsen,[1] is found on a single fragmentary tablet excavated in Nippur. It is written in the Sumerian language and dated to around 1600 BC.[1] Other Sumerian creation myths from around this date are called the Barton Cylinder, the Debate between sheep and grain and the Debate between Winter and Summer, also found at Nippur

© Copyright Original Source

These Creation myths evolved through Babylonian, and Canaanite/ Ugarite myths:

Source: https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-where-did-creation-story-come-from-1.5404560

Genesis of Genesis: Where Did the Biblical Story of Creation Come From?

© Copyright Original Source

[seer]

Perhaps it is a matter of seeing the glass as half full or half empty? Christianity is probably the only religion with the premise of original sin?---Judaism for example, does not have this concept. That is why one is presumed innocent until proven guilty---a concept from Jewish law----which presumes human nature as inherently decent....?....

If one presumes human nature as inherently evil---then our observations of the world and humanity will align with that presumption---but if we presume human nature to be primarily decent/good, then our observations of the world and human beings align with that presumption.

We do not believe men are completely evil, but we have an inherent bent towards wrongdoing. Have you ever raised kids? You don't have to teach a 3 year old to lie or a 4 year old to thump his little sister. You have to train them, really train them, to be good.

[seer]

Simply the nature of our physical existence, and the nature of our human nature as it is was Created by God as is. It is bizzare to believe God Created a flawed Creation that needed to corrected, because of the actions and failure of fallible humans.

I have no idea what you mean, did God create us flawed or not? If not why do we do evil?

The Sumerian Creation myth including the world flood was recorded in cuneiform tablets as:

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth

The earliest record of a Sumerian creation myth, called The Eridu Genesis by historian Thorkild Jacobsen,[1] is found on a single fragmentary tablet excavated in Nippur. It is written in the Sumerian language and dated to around 1600 BC.[1] Other Sumerian creation myths from around this date are called the Barton Cylinder, the Debate between sheep and grain and the Debate between Winter and Summer, also found at Nippur

© Copyright Original Source

These Creation myths evolved through Babylonian, and Canaanite/ Ugarite myths:

Source: https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-where-did-creation-story-come-from-1.5404560

Genesis of Genesis: Where Did the Biblical Story of Creation Come From?

© Copyright Original Source

We are speaking of Adam and Eve sinning by disobeying God. There is no parallel in the Sumerian creation story.

[shunyadragon]

I have no idea what you mean, did God create us flawed or not? If not why do we do evil?

Your not addressing the first part how God Created Adam and Eve, and would they be at fault for their own human weaknesses in the 'Fall' that God Created them fallible and flawed to 'Fall.? Who would be at fault for how Adam and Eve were Created? Not Adam and Eve.

God did not Create us as flawed, but if you believe in the story of Adam and Eve as described in Genesis this is the case.

No what we do is not evil. What we do, good and bad, is the product of how God Created us with a will. There was no 'Fall' nor Original Sin.' God Created us as God intended through natural processes.

[seer]

Your not addressing the first part how God Created Adam and Eve, and would they be at fault for their own human weaknesses in the 'Fall' that God Created them fallible and flawed to 'Fall.? Who would be at fault for how Adam and Eve were Created? Not Adam and Eve.

No, I don't believe they were created flawed, I believe they were created free.

God did not Create us as flawed, but if you believe in the story of Adam and Eve as described in Genesis this is the case.

No what we do is not evil. What we do, good and bad, is the product of how God Created us with a will. There was no 'Fall' nor Original Sin.' God Created us as God intended through natural processes.

I don't know what that means - so God created us to do evil?

[shunyadragon]

No, I don't believe they were created flawed, I believe they were created free.

Than there was no ]Fall nor Original Sin' that you could blame on Adam and Eve.

I don't know what that means - so God created us to do evil?

No God Created us as fallible humans with a will capable of doing good and disobeying God and doing things against the will of God, what you call evil. We naturally have a choice between light and dark, and we have always been fallible humans as God Created and intended humanity.

[seer]

Than there was no ]Fall nor Original Sin' that you could blame on Adam and Eve.

What? Of course I blame Adam for his sin. It was his choice.

No God Created us as fallible humans with a will capable of doing good and disobeying God and doing things against the will of God, what you call evil. We naturally have a choice between light and dark, and we have always been fallible humans as God Created and intended humanity.

So God created us to do evil? If he created us fallible he created us to fall into sin.

[shunyadragon]

What? Of course I blame Adam for his sin. It was his choice.

True like all humans we are responsible for our faults and sins since humans were first humans millions of years ago. Unfortunately the Biblical version is Adam and Eve ar responsible for the sinful nature of humanity.

So God created us to do evil? If he created us fallible he created us to fall into sin.

No, we did not 'Fall' into sin by the unfortunate transgression of Adam and Eve, but if you believe the literal Genesis version this would be the case. God did not Create us to do evil no more than God Created Adam and Eve to 'Fall' because of the fallible human nature God Created. God Created us as humans and we have the ability to make choice to a degree.

[NorrinRadd]

So God created us to do evil? If he created us fallible he created us to fall into sin.

"Able to fall" is not the same is "unavoidably destined to fall."

[siam]

And a muslim would know better how, exactly?

perhaps because a Muslim---unlike the Christian---has no vested interest in Judaism. For the Christians, they have appropriated the old Testatment/Torah for their own theological purposes and have interpreted the stories according to their theological convenience....?.....for example---In Judaism, God forgives Adam so there is no "original sin"......Yet Christianity interprets this story differently from Judaism......

I also search the net and listen to Jews about Judaism. (see links provided previously if u r also interested.)

[siam]

God. The only One Who is truly good.

The question was---where does compassion and mercy fit into a worldview which presumes human beings are evil and their actions are deliberately malicious....Are you saying that only God is capable of compassion and mercy?

[siam]

I believe we apply the presumption of innocence because all people are basically evil, including the accusers, who are capable of being satanic false accusers. Better to presume the accused to be innocent, and in the process let some guilty persons escape, than to presume guilt, and increase the odds of punishing the innocent.

Perhaps you are right....but.....
It might be more logical to presume a person guilty until proven innocent if human beings are inherently evil. And some point out that, if you look at how Church laws have been used---such as the Inquisition....?....
"Indeed, anyone arrested by the Inquisition was presumed guilty until proven innocent, a circumstance very unsettling to us who have enjoyed the blessings of the English common law tradition."
https://www.catholicculture.org/cult...cfm?recnum=647

Is there a possibility that "original sin" encourages the bias that all humanity is evil except the Christian because only the Christian is "saved"?

[seer]

True like all humans we are responsible for our faults and sins since humans were first humans millions of years ago. Unfortunately the Biblical version is Adam and Eve ar responsible for the sinful nature of humanity.


No, we did not 'Fall' into sin by the unfortunate transgression of Adam and Eve, but if you believe the literal Genesis version this would be the case. God did not Create us to do evil no more than God Created Adam and Eve to 'Fall' because of the fallible human nature God Created. God Created us as humans and we have the ability to make choice to a degree.

What? If God created us fallible as opposed to free (to make our own choices) then God is responsible for our evil.