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Thread: Original sin

  1. #251
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Where did the other universe come from? This is just making up stuff to explain the current universe. It isn't science, it is wishful thinking. There is no evidence of a prior universe.
    Obviously, had you comprehended what I said, the other universes would have come from the same place that our universe came from. And you are correct, it isn't science, but it is an extroplation of what we do know of existence in that whatever comes into existence comes from that which already exists, and there is no reason to believe that the birth of our universe is any different in that respect.

    It is replacing God. Instead of believing in God, you believe in another eternal universe that created this one. You just replaced the concept of a personal God with an inanimate object and think that is a better explanation. It isn't.
    It is a better explanation, because I am not adding something that there is no evidence of. We have evidence of material existence, none of immaterial existence. I can't replace that for which there is no evidence of in the first place.
    There was no time until God created it.
    Then a being who thinks and acts didn't exist either.
    Neither is your garbage. It is imaginary science. A hypothesis as you said. With no evidence.
    Well, mine is not direct evidence, it's an extrapolation of natural processes to the birth of the natural universe itself, but WLC's is totally made up, based upon nothing. That would make his hypothesis worse than garbage by your standards.
    You still end up with an infinite series of events before the universe is created and you can't have such a thing. That is why I linked you to Craig's paper. read it.
    I already know the argument, and disagree. Unless you want to argue that an eternal and infinite god wouldn't be capable of creating an infinite series of events as well.



    Are you claiming that knowing how something will function means it exists before it is made? Are you stupid?
    I am arguing that, yes, because if the knowledge, i.e if the laws of how a thing will function is eternal, then the thing itself is eternal, since a law, as you admitted, is naught but discriptive of the existing thing itself.
    Last edited by JimL; 09-16-2019 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #252
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Obviously, had you comprehended what I said, the other universes would have come from the same place that our universe came from. And you are correct, it isn't science, but it is an extroplation of what we do know of existence in that whatever comes into existence comes from that which already exists, and there is no reason to believe that the birth of our universe is any different in that respect.
    in other words a made up idea to explain our universe, exactly what you claim theists are doing.




    It is a better explanation, because I am not adding something that there is no evidence of.
    That is exactly what you are doing. You have no evidence of a previous universe. Or of a metaverse.



    We have evidence of material existence, none of immaterial existence. I can't replace that for which there is no evidence of in the first place.
    Ideas are immaterial. Like your idea that there was a previous universe that pooped out this one.


    Then a being who thinks and acts didn't exist either.
    I am sure that gives you comfort to believe.

    Well, mine is not direct evidence, it's an extrapolation of natural processes to the birth of the natural universe itself, but WLC's is totally made up, based upon nothing. That would make his hypothesis worse than garbage by your standards.

    I already know the argument, and disagree. Unless you want to argue that an eternal and infinite god wouldn't be capable of creating an infinite series of events as well.
    Our view is backed up by revelation by God himself. And Jesus coming to us. Your's is just made up out of whole cloth.




    I am arguing that, yes, because if the knowledge, i.e if the laws of how a thing will function is eternal, then the thing itself is eternal, since a law, as you admitted, is naught but discriptive of the existing thing itself.
    If the law describes how something functions, then if the thing doesn't exist, the law can't exist.

    So you think if God decides to great particles which exhibit the electro-magnetic force, that the electromagnetic force exists before he created the particles? That's moronic.

    I think I am done here. Your ignorance is not worth debating. It would be like me arguing with someone who insists that the sun is a lightbulb.

  3. #253
    tWebber
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    If any human legal court NEVER accepts the death of an innocent person in place of the criminal, then the concept of original sin makes no sense at all.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    If any human legal court NEVER accepts the death of an innocent person in place of the criminal, then the concept of original sin makes no sense at all.
    If I understand your point, I don't accept the idea of original sin literally but as a metaphor for what every person goes through in terms of innocence, temptation, and then knowingly doing what they know is the wrong thing to do. The possibility of doing wrong (moral responsibility) entails the all but certain outcome that one will consciously do wrong at some point in his or her life.

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