Originally posted by Adrift
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At What Point is the Human Soul/Spirit Created?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostCan you maybe go into the theological difficulties you see? I think maybe one could argue that God no longer "creates" after the 6th day, or something. I'm not sure how strong a theological argument that might be though.
Traducianism has the opposite problem. It preserves the solidarity of all mankind, at the price of making the human soul something that the child inherits from its parents. (Which has the further drawback that it seems to amount to a denial that the soul of man is purely spiritual, and not material.)Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 09-03-2019, 07:08 PM.
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Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostCreationism has the weakness that as God creates each human soul ex nihilo, it is not clear how the guilt of Adam is transmitted to each later person.
Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostTraducianism has the opposite problem. It preserves the solidarity of all mankind, at the price of making the human soul something that the child inherits from its parents. (Which has the further drawback that it seems to amount to a denial that the soul of man is purely spiritual, and not material
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Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostCreationism has the weakness that as God creates each human soul ex nihilo, it is not clear how the guilt of Adam is transmitted to each later person.
Traducianism has the opposite problem. It preserves the solidarity of all mankind, at the price of making the human soul something that the child inherits from its parents. (Which has the further drawback that it seems to amount to a denial that the soul of man is purely spiritual, and not material.)Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostIt depends on what you think happened at the fall. We do not inherent Adam's guilt but his nature that will sin. My view is that Adam was filled with the Holy Spirit, and that he lost that when he sinned. And now his offspring are born without that inherent influence. And that God's Spirit could not reenter our sinful vessels without the Sacrifice of Christ (Like the Old Testament Tabernacle) making us clean again. Hence we are now "born again, regenerated."
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe bible is pretty clear that the flesh is where the sinfulness comes in anyway, which would be inherited from the parents. That is why we age and die too. Our bodies are sinful and fallen. One day we will get glorified bodies which will be sinless.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWhen Paul talks about the flesh sometimes he's talking about the body, but other times he's referring to one's worldly nature, rather than the physical body. I suppose a worldly nature could also be inherited in a sense, but that might be stretching it. I might have to dig into some of the passages that suggest that flesh is where the sinfulness comes in, and what it means by that exactly.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWhen Paul talks about the flesh sometimes he's talking about the body, but other times he's referring to one's worldly nature, rather than the physical body. I suppose a worldly nature could also be inherited in a sense, but that might be stretching it. I might have to dig into some of the passages that suggest that flesh is where the sinfulness comes in, and what it means by that exactly."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWhen Paul talks about the flesh sometimes he's talking about the body, but other times he's referring to one's worldly nature, rather than the physical body. I suppose a worldly nature could also be inherited in a sense, but that might be stretching it. I might have to dig into some of the passages that suggest that flesh is where the sinfulness comes in, and what it means by that exactly.
I am trying to remember a chart a sunday school teacher gave us one time...
Adam and Eve before the fall = Able to sin or not sin.
Unsaved Humans (spiritually dead with fallen flesh) = unable to not sin.
Saved humans (spiritually reborn with fallen flesh)= able to sin or not sin*.
Glorified humans = unable to sin.
or something like that.
*I am not sure of the "saved" line. It seems we have more power to not sin because of the Holy Spirit, but we still do.
So our spirit still has something to do with it, but our flesh is what holds us back even though we are saved.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostMy thinking is that when Adam and Eve sinned, their perfect bodies became corrupted. They began to age and eventually died. Sin was like a physical addiction to the fallen human nature. We are unable to not-sin. We can stop ourselves from a particular sinning moment, but eventually we will give in and sin.
I am trying to remember a chart a sunday school teacher gave us one time...
Adam and Eve before the fall = Able to sin or not sin.
Unsaved Humans (spiritually dead with fallen flesh) = unable to not sin.
Saved humans (spiritually reborn with fallen flesh)= able to sin or not sin*.
Glorified humans = unable to sin.
or something like that.
*I am not sure of the "saved" line. It seems we have more power to not sin because of the Holy Spirit, but we still do.
So our spirit still has something to do with it, but our flesh is what holds us back even though we are saved.
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