Let's hear your perspectives (Philippians 2)
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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Work Out Your Salvation with Fear and Trembling
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It needs to be read along with its following verse:
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIt needs to be read along with its following verse:
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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What about the "fear or trembling" part? That could refer either to fear of losing our salvation/not being saved (depending on if you believe in eternal security), but I suspect it more likely has to do with a holy reverence for God."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostWhat about the "fear or trembling" part? That could refer either to fear of losing our salvation/not being saved (depending on if you believe in eternal security), but I suspect it more likely has to do with a holy reverence for God.
Therefore (Christ having done His work) -- you work out your salvation with fear and trembling (in Awe of Him) -- (because or for) God is working in you...
Luke 6:46 - Jesus asks His disciples why they call him Lord, but don't do what He says to do. I think that's what Paul is doing - pretty much "if you're going to call yourselves Christians, ACT LIKE IT".
Still thinking through how best to word this, which is why I'm interested in input. (The word "salvation" in chapter 1 is used for 'physical deliverance' - and the old testament word means deliverance)
I think we (American Revivalism) read every text in light of our major orientation "are you saved" or "how did you get saved".
Last point - I don't believe we are saved BY works, but I think we are saved FOR or TO good works.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I remember Vance Havner had a book titled "We Wrestle Not!"
"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy..." (Heb 12:14)
"... make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. … Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election." (2 Pe 1:5–7,10)
"... make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him." (2 Pe 3:14)
A number of "make every effort"s directed at believers! These would seem to have a bearing on "work out your salvation", progress towards holiness is not a walk in the park.
"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize." (1 Co 9:24–27)
"In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood." (Heb 12:4)
!!!
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Correction, "We Wrestle Not!" is a sermon by Leonard Ravenhill…
"You cannot fight the good fight while lying on your back. Let's face it: We are not living in a day of militant Christianity..."
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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OTOH, the yoke of His teachings is supposed to be light, easy to bear, restful to the soul. -- Matt. 11Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostOTOH, the yoke of His teachings is supposed to be light, easy to bear, restful to the soul. -- Matt. 11
So I agree!
Blessings,
LeeLast edited by lee_merrill; 09-01-2019, 03:12 PM."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
So I agree!
Blessings,
LeeGeislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Well, how about this?
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostI don't understand why Lewis is so revered. I read that, and about all I get is the "wah-wah-WAH-wah-wah-wah-WAH-wah" of "adult-speak" in Charlie Brown cartoons. Seriously. It is of no help to my understanding. :-(
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It's a confusing verse because the context doesn't clearly explain what it is talking about. But I take it to mean that salvation equates to the kingdom of God. The more the Philippians evangelize, the more they build the kingdom and, hence, build their own salvation.
Philippians 2:12-16
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15 that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 16 holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Matthew 6:10
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
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