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Thread: NYT - Trump Administration Considers a Drastic Cut in Refugees Allowed to Enter

  1. #191
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    It's a google away, Sam...

    … the administration was directing more resources to address the hundreds of thousands of mainly Central American families and children who have crossed the U.S. border with Mexico during the past year, many seeking refuge in the United States.

    “Our focus has been on dealing with the asylum influx (at the U.S. border), and prioritizing those cases,” the official said.
    U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) has already shifted refugee caseworkers to instead work on asylum cases, the official said - and will continue to shift more - reducing the number of refugee files that can be handled no matter where the cap is set. The official did not provide details on how many case officers had been reassigned.
    What's the USCIS budget for asylum applications? Again, do you even care to know?

    Ken Cuccenelli is currently helping the administration not only reduce the number of asylum claims that can be arbitrated in court but reducing the number of people who can claim asylum altogether, increasing speedy deportations.

    We're not -increasing- asylum capacity; we're increasing detention capacity, which is also unnecessary, expensive, and cruel.

    That's not a considered, evidenced reason, it's another smokescreen ... which anyone who gave a tinker's damn about the wellbeing of asylum seekers and refugees would know from a quick google.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  2. #192
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Galilee and Egypt were, in fact, two different lands. One being a place in Judea, one being, well, Egypt.
    Reduced to totally ignoring my argument in favor of repeating your own flawed one, eh?
    Christ was a refugee who could not stay in His own land for fear of death. He was able to emigrate and find safety in a different land. It's shameful to try and parse that out in such a way that refugees in similar danger can be excluded.

    --Sam
    There is shameful parsing going on here, but you're fingering the wrong party.
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  3. #193
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Out of caution for your fragile mental state, I will refrain from giving your post the response it so richly deserves. I am not putting different value on either. Everyone has the right to live. Refugees have many options to choose from, and in fact, most all of them choose other countries other than the US. The unborn have no other options.
    Refugees awaiting resettlement don't "choose" their country of residence. They apply to UNHCR, interview, (sometimes) get paired to a country, interview and then (sometimes) get resettled. Inasmuch as they can choose at all, it's through the "illegal immigration" that Conservatives have seen fit to demonize.

    But most refugees, if they don't get matched to a new country through UNHCR, stay in camps. And many of them die there, awaiting resettlement.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  4. #194
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Reduced to totally ignoring my argument in favor of repeating your own flawed one, eh?

    There is shameful parsing going on here, but you're fingering the wrong party.
    Your argument was that Egypt and Judea were under the same "governmental system". That either means

    1) The Roman Empire
    2) The Roman Empire's "controlled areas"
    3) The same government operating under supervision of the Roman Empire

    None serve the argument you try to make. Herod, the king, didn't have reach into Egypt, which is why Joseph and Mary fled there. It was not the "same governmental system". So you must mean something else.

    There's only one party in America today arguing that refugee resettlement should be zeroed out and that asylum seekers should be "sent back" without even a trial.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  5. #195
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post

    Heck, we're not even a single presidential term removed from people arguing that a Muslim ban was not only acceptable but a good, even necessary idea.

    --Sam
    This statement right here shows that you have ZERO interest in anything other than leftist talking points.

    Source: Politifact

    Although five of the seven nations in the order have Muslim-majority populations, "that fact alone does not support an inference of religious hostility," Justice Roberts added, saying that the policy covered 8 percent of the world's Muslim population and was limited to countries previously designated by Congress or other administrations as posing national security risks.

    © Copyright Original Source



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  6. #196
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    This statement right here shows that you have ZERO interest in anything other than leftist talking points.

    Source: Politifact

    Although five of the seven nations in the order have Muslim-majority populations, "that fact alone does not support an inference of religious hostility," Justice Roberts added, saying that the policy covered 8 percent of the world's Muslim population and was limited to countries previously designated by Congress or other administrations as posing national security risks.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Oh, come off it. Trump was explicitly calling for a Muslim ban during the campaign. It was on his web site. His supporters agreed with the position. After the election Guiliani told reporters that Trump asked him to implement it in a legal way -- and it still took three tries before SCOTUS green-lit a version of it.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  7. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
  8. #197
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    What's the USCIS budget for asylum applications? Again, do you even care to know?
    It's not the application budget. It's the staff to process them. Try and read what I actually post.

    Ken Cuccenelli is currently helping the administration not only reduce the number of asylum claims that can be arbitrated in court but reducing the number of people who can claim asylum altogether, increasing speedy deportations.
    Leftist talking point. Ken is doing no such thing.

    We're not -increasing- asylum capacity; we're increasing detention capacity, which is also unnecessary, expensive, and cruel.
    Lies. It is not unnecessary or cruel to detain people from flowing into this country without having a clue whether they carry disease, are mules for the cartels, are trafficking in humans, or are here for other nefarious purposes. And the expense canard is your own side's double edged sword. Leftists complain about "run-down conditions" and then out of the other mouth, gripe about the cost of upgrading them. It must be grand being able to control both sides of an argument so no matter who disagrees, you have a side you can bastardize.

    That's not a considered, evidenced reason, it's another smokescreen ... which anyone who gave a tinker's damn about the wellbeing of asylum seekers and refugees would know from a quick google.

    --Sam
    Horse crap. You just hate Trump, just like Jim. None of your responses are evidence-based. They are emotional manipulation and thorough ignorance of how a government works.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  9. Amen Mountain Man, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  10. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    It's not the application budget. It's the staff to process them. Try and read what I actually post.



    Leftist talking point. Ken is doing no such thing.



    Lies. It is not unnecessary or cruel to detain people from flowing into this country without having a clue whether they carry disease, are mules for the cartels, are trafficking in humans, or are here for other nefarious purposes. And the expense canard is your own side's double edged sword. Leftists complain about "run-down conditions" and then out of the other mouth, gripe about the cost of upgrading them. It must be grand being able to control both sides of an argument so no matter who disagrees, you have a side you can bastardize.



    Horse crap. You just hate Trump, just like Jim. None of your responses are evidence-based. They are emotional manipulation and thorough ignorance of how a government works.

    You just don't have any real idea about this stuff and, because you don't particularly care, mistake aggravated frustration with pure emotional argument.

    Cuccinelli is supportive of the Trump administration's push to deport more asylum-seeking families without trial. And, no, we do not have to detain asylum-seeking families for weeks, months, and years -- as the Trump administration is doing -- to control for disease or trafficking. Families are being kept in detention long after initial screening. In 2017, the Trump administration closed an asylum management program that had a 95%+ retention rate using case managers and tracking hardware that cost ~$16/week for an asylum-seeking family released pending trial. What the administration is currently doing is detaining these families, past the maximum date of the Flores Agreement in many cases, with a cost of ~$150 - $300 per day, per person.

    People who really care about this know all this information already. People who don't really care have the option to start, and to learn.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  11. #199
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Refugees awaiting resettlement don't "choose" their country of residence.
    That's not what I claimed. Refugees only choose the option of third country settlement after rejecting voluntary return and local integration. And they mostly do have the option to decline the third country that chooses them, and remain in the country they fled to.

    They apply to UNHCR, interview, (sometimes) get paired to a country, interview and then (sometimes) get resettled. Inasmuch as they can choose at all, it's through the "illegal immigration" that Conservatives have seen fit to demonize.
    Before that, they have options. And many choose to stay in the country that accepts them as refugees.


    But most refugees, if they don't get matched to a new country through UNHCR, stay in camps. And many of them die there, awaiting resettlement.
    Source: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/03/681956995/number-of-migrant-deaths-in-mediterranean-fell-in-2018


    According to the IOM, 4,503 migrants died across the world in 2018.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Most drowned in the Mediterranean.

    https://missingmigrants.iom.int/ shows the number from this year. Again, half have drowned in the Mediterranean Sea.

    Deaths at camps are mainly due to local sectarian violence between the refugees themselves and local residents, and not from refugees being turned down for third country settlement.

    For example:
    https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/news/lat...it-kenyan.html

    So, again, you speak without any facts.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  12. #200
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Oh, come off it. Trump was explicitly calling for a Muslim ban during the campaign.
    So what? He wasn't in office. When he COULD make decisions for the country, he was more specific about his intentions. So, YOU come off it and actually argue policy, if you can...

    It was on his web site. His supporters agreed with the position.
    Not really. Some did, some didn't.

    After the election Guiliani told reporters that Trump asked him to implement it in a legal way -- and it still took three tries before SCOTUS green-lit a version of it.

    --Sam
    And you trust Rudy… why?


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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