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Thread: NYT - Trump Administration Considers a Drastic Cut in Refugees Allowed to Enter

  1. #221
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Now where did that concept of absolute morality run off to …
    It ran off when the nation abandoned her Christian principles.

    But more importantly, you realize you can't and haven't challenged what I said AT all in this statement. The preamble to the command is talking about HOW GOD SEES THE POOR.
    Why would I need to challenge it? But YOU and Sammy have yet to disconnect that from how this SECULAR nation is governed.

    That has never changed, and it applies just as much to us today as it did to them yesterday.
    Tell your atheist chums here that they have to obey scriptural commands. See how that turns out.


    Who said anything about forcing a secular nation to comply?
    The OP. That's who.

    I am talking about what is right and wrong, and what WE (Christians) can support.
    Again, the two premises can be true at the same time, Jim. Keep up.

    What we can support is that which is consistent with what God has declared to be good, and what WE have to stand against is what God has declared to be wrong, or evil.
    Yet AGAIN... we can stand against it as morally wrong, yet still acknowledge his right as leader of the country to make that decision.

    So what trump is doing is wrong.
    From YOUR point of view, maybe. But, again, you are welcome to disagree with him to your liberal heart's content. He is still the leader of this country, and has the authority to choose the direction of the country in these matters. Your all-or-nothing act is getting tiresome.

    And not only is it wrong from a Christian perspective, it's wrong from a humanitarian perspective. So we should have no part in it. Period.
    Your problem, Jim, is that you have no part in TRUMP. You are actively condemning the leader of the country based on your OWN ideas of morality and your own interpretation of scripture.

    Further, since this is a democratic republic, when we vote, and when we campaign, and when we write letters to our senators and congressman, we should make the case for what is good and right, and we should object to what is wrong. And if we can, we should influence our secular nation to align itself with what is right. That is part of what being the 'Salt of the Earth' is about.

    That is really all there is to it.
    No argument here.


    Even supposing you are correct, it doesn't help, because "If you've done it to the least of these, you've done it to me"
    Holy out of context, Batman...



    Who's talking about forcing someone into compliance?
    You and Sammy are.

    Must be you, because it certainly is not me. I'm talking about what we as Christians should support, and what we should speak out against.
    Oh, it's you.

    "And if we can, we should influence our secular nation to align itself with what is right"

    Sound familiar?


    I'm not challenging his authority to do the wrong thing.
    Yes you are. And you're delusional if you think you aren't.

    I challenging the Idea Christians should support him doing the wrong thing. And I challenging the idea that what Trump is doing isn't wrong.
    Horse poo. You've basically painted Trump in a corner of your own design and nearly everything he can do will be wrong in your eyes. If he puts resources to refugee resettlement, you'll bitch about not having enough resources for the southern border. if he redirects resources to the southern border, you'll bitch that he isn't treating the refugees fairly. There simply isn't enough people to do it all, but you don't care. Nor are you interested in stepping back from your nose up Sam's butt to actually look at the WHY these things are happening. Why not drop the pretenses Jim, and just own the liberal in you.


    Yikes! NOT WITH THE BLESSING OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN AMERICA HE DOESN'T.

    And that is my point.


    Jim
    Own it Jim... own it.
    Last edited by Bill the Cat; 09-10-2019 at 01:10 PM.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  2. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  3. #222
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No - it's an attempt to help you see what you are voting for. What you are supporting. What you are arguing for is a policy that cuts off real people who have done nothing wrong, in this case who have done everything right, from the safety they would legally have been able to find in our borders prior to its implementation. What Trump is doing in this case is wrong. Period. And we as Christians have a responsibility to make sure WE come down on the side of this that Christ himself would be supporting. We are His ambassadors to this world. Let's make sure to the best of our ability anyone that rejects Him does so because of who He is, not because of how we misrepresented Him.

    Tru
    Bull crap. it's emotional blackmail in its purest form. I was expecting a link to Sarah McLaughlan's "Arms of an Angel" and a one eyed dog attachment.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  4. #223
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Tell your atheist chums here that they have to obey scriptural commands. See how that turns out.
    I think the main point to be taken is that some of the Christians in here do not want to obey them and continue to speak in favour of politics with no or little concern for those in need. And, seemingly, the atheists are even used as an excuse for that...
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  5. #224
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No - that would be a gross distortion of what I have said. This thread is about cutting off refugees Sparko. There is a very, very large gap between the cruelty and coldheartedness of cutting off people fleeing for their lives and dissolving our borders.

    Is there a reason you did not think of that before you made this post?


    Jim
    So where do you draw the line? What determines if someone is a worthy refugee or an unworthy alien to be turned away? Is being poor enough to qualify?

    And our country does accept refugees if they meet the criteria. They are interviewed to determine if they qualify for asylum. If not they are sent back. But even when people do qualify there has to be a limit. You can't expect our country to accept millions of refugees a year. So what is a good number we should cut them off at and still be Good Christians?

  6. #225
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I think the main point to be taken is that some of the Christians in here do not want to obey them and continue to speak in favour of politics with no or little concern for those in need. And, seemingly, the atheists are even used as an excuse for that...
    just


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  7. #226
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Now where did that concept of absolute morality run off to ...
    If you want to lecture is about absolute morality based on the Old Testament, then why aren't you advocating the stoning of homosexuals and adulterers?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  9. #227
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    If you want to lecture is about absolute morality based on the Old Testament, then why aren't you advocating the stoning of homosexuals and adulterers?
    Straw man. Here is what he said:
    The verse in deuteronomy in the OP has broad, general application. It's opening sentiment is echoed and amplified by other sections of the OT, and by jesus in the new. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post668637
    Emphasis mine.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  10. #228
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    Straw man. Here is what he said:

    Emphasis mine.
    Not a strawman at all. Jesus said nothing about what governments should do with political refugees.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. Amen Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
  12. #229
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Why isn't anyone talking about why the administration is looking for a restriction in refugees? The article quickly mentions that it has something to do with an influx of asylum seekers at the border that are tying things up and leading to a massive backlog of asylum cases. That almost makes it sound like they're not reducing refugee acceptance, so much as shifting it to border asylum seekers, but that can't be right, can it? Also, reading the article, I was surprised that this refugee program is only 40 years old. I figured we had been taking in refugees for far longer. Is this article referring to only one program among many?

    It might also be nice to get some context on where the US stands as a host for refugees as well. It's hard for me to get a mark on it because most stats online seem to be referring to refugees by population density. The vast majority of nations hosting the most people per population seem to be poor neighboring nations that have little choice in the matter. It seems that if you discount neighboring nations in Africa and the Middle East, the US is among one of the greater wealthy nation hosts, second to Germany (because of location, Germany as a host makes sense), then France, China (which surprised me), the UK and Japan (another surprise).

    These wealthy nations host about 9% of the world's refugees, but make up for it a bit by offering massive amounts of financial aid. Unfortunately everyone has a "side," and attempting to get a big picture is proving difficult.

    Also, it should be noted that, while Trump will inevitably be held responsible on which way the administration goes on this, according to the article, apparently it's not him talking about it as much as some guy named Stephen Miller who is his immigration adviser. It seems highly unlikely to me that, even if Miller is suggesting a complete halt to the program, the US will stop taking in refugees completely.
    Last edited by Adrift; 09-10-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  13. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Not a strawman at all. Jesus said nothing about what governments should do with political refugees.
    He said nothing about what governments should do with Christians either. And so I guess that makes the slaughters by pol pot, the Roman empire, etc perfectly acceptable - right?

    He said nothing about what governments should allow in terms of abortion on demand either. Nor did he say anything about slavery - so all that is ok too? Cant ask the government to do any different, right?

    Certainly can't protest any of that on moral grounds - right?

    Your argument is just vacuous MM, except for the fact half this website has bought into it hook line and sinker I wouldn't give it the time of day.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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