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Thread: Trump the Needler

  1. #71
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    I genuinely don't understand why you think the Birmingham tweet was rude. It did not mention Trump at all. The urgent nature of an oncoming hurricane means that NOAA should be tackling misconceptions and accurately disseminating information. The fact that Trump weighed in on the issue does not somehow mean that the accurate information cannot be disseminated. With an oncoming hurricane, there is no time to try to communicate through backchannels and get a retraction out there in a day or two. The information needs to be up there now.

    The only person who was rude was Trump who made personal attacks on Twitter on reporters who tried to set the story straight.

    Seriously, why do you care so much about the supposed "rude" treatment (both here and in the Greenland thread, which was also not an example of r udeness) about somebody who constantly makes public petty personal attacks on anybody he disagrees with, but don't seem concerned about that?
    Last edited by KingsGambit; 09-07-2019 at 01:39 PM.
    "Technology has, in an enhanced way, given mockers a platform to set society on fire with polarizing speech. Internet culture privileges those whose insults are click bait." - Timothy Keller

  2. #72
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I genuinely don't understand why you think the Birmingham tweet was rude. It did not mention Trump at all. The urgent nature of an oncoming hurricane means that NOAA should be tackling misconceptions and accurately disseminating information. The fact that Trump weighed in on the issue does not somehow mean that the accurate information cannot be disseminated. With an oncoming hurricane, there is no time to try to communicate through backchannels and get a retraction out there in a day or two. The information needs to be up there now.

    The only person who was rude was Trump who made personal attacks on Twitter on reporters who tried to set the story straight.

    Seriously, why do you care so much about the supposed "rude" treatment (both here and in the Greenland thread, which was also not an example of r udeness) about somebody who constantly makes public petty personal attacks on anybody he disagrees with, but don't seem concerned about that?
    There is no basis for this assertion.

    I think this assertion is baseless.

    The assertion seems baseless to me.

    Three different ways to say the same thing - and all three get different initial reactions. That's why.



    If you expect Trump to be a jerk, why deliberately provoke him? If you work for him - which the NWS does - at least respect the office.

    And only Sam, per his own admission, is stupid enough to smart off to his boss publicly, making things worse.

    Tact - not just for upholstery...

  3. #73
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    There is no basis for this assertion.

    I think this assertion is baseless.

    The assertion seems baseless to me.

    Three different ways to say the same thing - and all three get different initial reactions. That's why.



    If you expect Trump to be a jerk, why deliberately provoke him? If you work for him - which the NWS does - at least respect the office.

    And only Sam, per his own admission, is stupid enough to smart off to his boss publicly, making things worse.

    Tact - not just for upholstery...

    It would be a matter of medical ethics and oath to inform patients that a phony Ebola threat was, in fact, phony. Whether that incurs the wrath of a distant superior is irrelevant to the ethical question.

    I imagine that professional meteorologists covering a hurricane have a similar dedication to their wards and to their profession's ethical code.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  4. #74
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Politifact is not a credible source.
    I'm all ears.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  5. #75
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    It would be a matter of medical ethics and oath to inform patients that a phony Ebola threat was, in fact, phony. Whether that incurs the wrath of a distant superior is irrelevant to the ethical question.

    I imagine that professional meteorologists covering a hurricane have a similar dedication to their wards and to their profession's ethical code.

    --Sam
    Talk sense, just once.

  6. #76
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    The key here is triage. He lies too much for anyone to keep up, so fact checkers need to pick and choose, and naturally enough, they choose the worst, skewing his ratios. That's the sampling bias I was speaking about.
    I understand the concept, and recall the basics from the several college courses I took when finishing my degree.

    What I'm saying is, when I listen with my own ears and read with my own eyes the President's words, that corroborates the fact that Trump has a casual relationship with the truth. I get that what I just said is anecdotal (which has it's own sampling problems), but I'm not aware of better sources of information regarding Trump's truthfulness.

    Are you prepared to argue that Trump is MORE honest, in general, than other politicians? Because if not, then the sampling bias in Politifact's process isn't all that interesting to me. My point is, he's a liar.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  7. #77
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Talk sense, just once.
    Teal, Sam is talking sense. You're simply unwilling to listen. What's that phrase, people believe what they want to believe? Yeah.

    Is there literally no circumstance for which you would publicly make your boss like a moron? Literally nothing? Including people's lives and livelihoods? Because we are talking about that here.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  8. #78
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    This ... may not hold up as the Roger Stone trial gets underway. Trump reportedly sent Stone to go looking for Clinton's "missing emails" and Stone allegedly (by the Mueller investigation) found his way to Wikileaks which, by that time, was suspected by US intelligence as being a cut-out for Russian hack n' dump operations. Stone allegedly discovered that Wikileaks was holding the Podesta emails and worked with Assange/Wikileaks to time the emails in such a way that maximized benefit to Trump (the Podesta emails began to be released in the hour following the Access Hollywood tape and would drip out piecemeal for weeks afterward).

    According to recently released pre-trial documents, four numbers for Donald Trump, along with numbers for his family and close aides during the campaign, are relevant to Stone's upcoming trial. Trump is implicated (although he could not be directly named or charged, as President) in directing Stone's Wikileaks-optimization of "dirt", which is very similar in nature to courting Russian offers of "dirt" earlier in the campaign.

    The Trump Tower Moscow dealings continued, according to Michael Cohen, through the summer of 2016 and up through November.

    --Sam
    I'm not sure how what you said disagrees with anything I said. I do appreciate the information, though. Didn't know some of that.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  9. #79
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Before I tackle this (tomorrow - I already owe Leo an answer) tell me why it's okay to be rude, in public, to a superior, when there's no need to be rude?
    I've had to say rude things, in public, to supervisors before. You know what? It WAS ok to be rude, when the wrong person was about to be arrested. Or when someone needs immediate medical attention and is literally dying.

    You work in healthcare, and you can't imagine a scenario (however unlikely) in which you'd do something a supervisor might think was rude to help someone or save someone's life? Being nice has no place in an emergency situation, and that's what was happening -- a massive storm bearing down on our country. I'm not saying I agree with NOAA's assessment of how necessary it was contradict Trump publicly (I'm no meteorologist), but I'm fascinated by how you've doubled down on this.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  10. Amen KingsGambit amen'd this post.
  11. #80
    tWebber
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    Sorry, didn't mean to imply any strong disagreement. Just pointing out that it's not necessarily true that Trump or his campaign changed course RE: Russian interference over the course of the campaign.

    --Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    I'm not sure how what you said disagrees with anything I said. I do appreciate the information, though. Didn't know some of that.
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


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