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Thread: Massive Muslim Immigration...

  1. #121
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    TLDR; he spends most of it talking about a hypothetical situation where man wants his wife to engage in group sex, and how she should say no to that.
    Jump to 2:35, if you wanna skip that.

    He makes two points:
    1) An abused woman should endure the verbal abuse, or the physical abuse for a season.
    2) After that the abused woman should seek help from the church.
    3) At no point does he mention talking to secular authorities. Discipline of the husband should be by the church.

    He's referring to Church Discipline, as outlined in Matthew 18:15-17 - unfortunately, most churches don't have the courage to exercise it that way, so it's a bit of an over-idealized unworkable solution, in my opinion.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  3. #122
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Must have been before my time, or different region of the country.... I've never experienced that at all.
    Funny, I was about to say the same about my Muslim friends. They don't seem to call for my execution at all.

    I am fully aware of the encouragement from clergy to seek reconciliation, but I have never experienced any situations like you describe.
    I guess John Piper, and others are nobodies, that just aren't given any hearing in the baptist community. My mistake.

    There's a difference between variant policies and actual law, Leon... we certainly don't have honor killings and rules against women driving and being in public without a guardian.... Have you studied Sharia law?
    Since basically, any sharia law that I'm aware of condemns the kind of honor killings you're talking about, I'm about to ask whether you've studied Sharia law?

    I am not. I was unaware you were - I knew you had some issues there, but... no, certainly not.
    Asking me about where I'd feel safe and welcome with that issue is a bad topic for me Cow Poke. Let's just say that I've come to the understanding that in Christian communities its better to just stay in the closet, and talk vaguely about a spiritual issue bothering you when you're around other Christians. I can count on one hand the number of people I've trusted enough to not explode in regards to that.

    I don't think you'll find many mainline Christian communities calling for the execution of homosexuals, Leon.
    No just casual snide about it being declared a mental illness again, and talks of medicine and therapy being banded about, even on TheologyWeb. And yes, you've had several Christian posters here calling for homosexuals to be given the death penalty as something that's proper, in a hypothetical future where most of the US has been converted. Glenn People's you might remember.

    Some Islamist groups consider homosexuality as something that should be given a death penalty. I'd even grant you that more of them do than Christians do. But we're only a couple of decades away from where a man could go to prison over this, or be forced into medical treatment.

    There are still camps for boys out there in the US, Cow Poke. Usually, they're told to say they're there for 'delinquency', lots of testimony about them being given pseudo-Freudian therapy and made to drink bleach as punishments.

  4. #123
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    He's referring to Church Discipline, as outlined in Matthew 18:15-17 - unfortunately, most churches don't have the courage to exercise it that way, so it's a bit of an over-idealized unworkable solution, in my opinion.
    Yes, that's the point. You don't seem to mind a religious community creating its own laws, that supercede the laws of a secular country they're in. The husband has done something illegal, yet instead of turning him over to the authorities, the woman is told to endure it. Furthermore after she's endured it, she's told to bring it stealthily to the Church. No mention of authorities. And the Church deals with the man, not the authorities.

    The hasedic have similar courts, in fact they've infamously covered up a lot of crime in their own community, and handled it internally in various ways.

    So I have a feeling its not religious courts having their own seperate rules you have a problem with Cow Poke?

  5. #124
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Funny, I was about to say the same about my Muslim friends. They don't seem to call for my execution at all.
    Then you live in peace.

    I guess John Piper, and others are nobodies, that just aren't given any hearing in the baptist community. My mistake.
    I don't pay much attention to him, Leon -- I know he has a following.

    This appears to be getting into a rather heated discussion between us, which I do not intend at all, and since I consider you a brother and a friend, I'll politely bow out.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. #125
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Are you here referring to the fact that I'm gay Cow Poke? If you do, I don't think that's fair in this conversation. Nor would Christian communities come out as great as you think they would.
    Apologies to all if this is inappropriate, but I initially misunderstood this and it confused the heck out of me.

    At first I thought you were saying that you were gay Cow Poke, not that you were saying to Cow Poke, "I'm gay." The difference between "I'm gay, Cow Poke" and "I'm gay Cow Poke."

    I was trying to remember if anyone had ever referred to Leonhard as "gay Cow Poke" before.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

  7. #126
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Southern Baptists, in particular, have in many instances adviced abused women not to go to the police, and instead direct them to talk to other people in the Church first. Typically a group of men, who are 'senior' in the church. The elders then in many cases tell the women that they have to submit to their husbands.
    I have never heard of that happening at any church. Sounds more like something you'd expect from a cult.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  9. #127
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    Apologies to all if this is inappropriate, but I initially misunderstood this and it confused the heck out of me.

    At first I thought you were saying that you were gay Cow Poke, not that you were saying to Cow Poke, "I'm gay." The difference between "I'm gay, Cow Poke" and "I'm gay Cow Poke."

    I was trying to remember if anyone had ever referred to Leonhard as "gay Cow Poke" before.
    You writer, you.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  10. #128
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Yes, that's the point. You don't seem to mind a religious community creating its own laws, that supercede the laws of a secular country they're in.
    Actually, yes I do mind. I was simply explaining what he was referring to, while also addressing the fact that most churches don't have the courage to exercise church discipline the way Jesus laid it out.

    Again, I consider you a friend, and I don't wish to be at war with you. IF a matter can be addressed in a spiritual manner, great -- I am not, nor have I ever, desired a woman to suffer unnecessarily under an abusive husband, or the other way around.

    Last word to you.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  12. #129
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain man View Post
    i have never heard of that happening at any church. Sounds more like something you'd expect from a cult.
    fyi:

    a prominent southern baptist leader at the center of controversy this spring over comments he has made about abused women allegedly encouraged a woman who said she had been raped not to report it to the police and told her to forgive her alleged assailant, the woman has told the washington post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...?noredirect=on
    It is not exactly the same case that Leonhard describes.
    Last edited by Charles; 09-10-2019 at 10:23 AM.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  13. #130
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    fyi:
    FYI:


    Paige Patterson Fired by Southwestern, Stripped of Retirement Benefits


    A week after trustees voted to immediately shift Paige Patterson to “president emeritus” at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (SWBTS), the board’s executive committee has stripped the Southern Baptist stalwart of all “benefits, rights and privileges.”


    Happy? I am!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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