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Thread: Massive Muslim Immigration...

  1. #161
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Yes, that's the point. You don't seem to mind a religious community creating its own laws, that supercede the laws of a secular country they're in. The husband has done something illegal, yet instead of turning him over to the authorities, the woman is told to endure it. Furthermore after she's endured it, she's told to bring it stealthily to the Church. No mention of authorities. And the Church deals with the man, not the authorities.

    The hasedic have similar courts, in fact they've infamously covered up a lot of crime in their own community, and handled it internally in various ways.

    So I have a feeling its not religious courts having their own seperate rules you have a problem with Cow Poke?
    Just watched the video. Is it possible you're reading more into this than Piper intended? Piper doesn't say anything about not going to the police. Taking a charitable view, I'm assuming he has in mind a broader picture about spousal conflict and divorce, which I'm sure pastors everywhere are regularly attempting to stem in their congregations. He seems to be distinguishing between rampant and/or violent abuse, and those who, say, step over the line in heated arguments, but who may still heed pastoral guidance. By "enduring it" I didn't take him to mean that the woman needs to just be the recipient of abuse, but that the first instinct probably shouldn't be divorce simply because the husband called her a lousy cook, or things got totally out of hand one night, and he slapped his wife. The husband should certainly not be doing either of those things (especially the slap), but within the Christian framework how do we deal with that? I have little doubt that Piper would be like "drop his butt" if the issue was consistent and unrepentant abuse, or if he, say punched his wife. I don't think that's at all what Piper has in mind.

    But...I could be wrong.

  2. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  3. #162
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Just watched the video. Is it possible you're reading more into this than Piper intended? Piper doesn't say anything about not going to the police. Taking a charitable view, I'm assuming he has in mind a broader picture about spousal conflict and divorce, which I'm sure pastors everywhere are regularly attempting to stem in their congregations. He seems to be distinguishing between rampant and/or violent abuse, and those who, say, step over the line in heated arguments, but who may still heed pastoral guidance. By "enduring it" I didn't take him to mean that the woman needs to just be the recipient of abuse, but that the first instinct probably shouldn't be divorce simply because the husband called her a lousy cook, or things got totally out of hand one night, and he slapped his wife. The husband should certainly not be doing either of those things (especially the slap), but within the Christian framework how do we deal with that? I have little doubt that Piper would be like "drop his butt" if the issue was consistent and unrepentant abuse, or if he, say punched his wife. I don't think that's at all what Piper has in mind.

    But...I could be wrong.
    Then I could be wrong, too, cause that's pretty much how I saw it.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  5. #163
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    So the sexual abuse of more than 700 human beings is a random story...
    Like I said, you didn't even know or care about this topic until it was brought up in this thread, and then you giddily ran to the nearest internet search engine to find any random story you could to throw in our faces. Don't pretend you have any concern beyond that.

    My only contention was that discouraging abused women from going to the police was not a widespread practice in US churches. You randomly stumble across a story saying that 700 women claim this happened. Roughly 30-million women attend church each week. There are roughly 50,000 churches in the US. That hardly suggests a widespread practice.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  7. #164
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Like I said, you didn't even know or care about this topic until it was brought up in this thread, and then you giddily ran to the nearest internet search engine to find any random story you could to throw in our faces. Don't pretend you have any concern beyond that.

    My only contention was that discouraging abused women from going to the police was not a widespread practice in US churches. You randomly stumble across a story saying that 700 women claim this happened. Roughly 30-million women attend church each week. There are roughly 50,000 churches in the US. That hardly suggests a widespread practice.
    And here is what you left out of the quote:

    "So the sexual abuse of more than 700 human beings is a random story or a nanny story (according to CP) all based on claims about who I am and how I found the stories. Perhaps you should take a bit more interest in the more than 700 than in me. That would help both you and Cow Poke to find a decent and worthy tone.

    It is interesting to watch how far you guys are willing to go in order to avoid the content and talk about something else..."

    Funny how your post does not really work when you read it all...
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  8. #165
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    Funny how your post does not really work when you read it all...
    It works just fine. 700 cases out of tens of millions of church going women does not suggest a widespread practice among US churches.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #166
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    And here is what you left out of the quote:

    "So the sexual abuse of more than 700 human beings is a random story or a nanny story (according to CP) all based on claims about who I am and how I found the stories. Perhaps you should take a bit more interest in the more than 700 than in me. That would help both you and Cow Poke to find a decent and worthy tone.

    It is interesting to watch how far you guys are willing to go in order to avoid the content and talk about something else..."

    Funny how your post does not really work when you read it all...
    It works just fine because I have never heard of this practice and Iíve been going to church for years. I even know a women whose pastor convinced her to call police and leave by using Biblical references to honoring your wife and beating your wife is a violation of this principle. If anything, men abusing women is looked down upon as being beneath godly men of character and strength.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-11-2019 at 04:26 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  10. #167
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It works just fine. 700 cases out of tens of millions of church going women does not suggest a widespread practice among US churches.
    Why do you guys even bother responding to his initial trolls? Just skip his posts and go on. You especially seem to nibble at every one of Chuck's baits. Just stop. Answer him if he has a valid contribution to a thread, but just ignore his baiting and you will be much happier.

  11. #168
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Why do you guys even bother responding to his initial trolls? Just skip his posts and go on. You especially seem to nibble at every one of Chuck's baits. Just stop. Answer him if he has a valid contribution to a thread, but just ignore his baiting and you will be much happier.
    I am happy. Chuck is like going to the batting cages where every pitch is directly over the plate and easy to knock out of the park.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. #169
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I am happy. Chuck is like going to the batting cages where every pitch is directly over the plate and easy to knock out of the park.
    Yeah it might be fun for you but not for others. Chuck wins because the thread goes off on a tangent for dozens of pages. He is leading you around by the nose and you don't see it.

  13. #170
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This appears to be getting into a rather heated discussion between us, which I do not intend at all, and since I consider you a brother and a friend, I'll politely bow out.
    Well which way is going to be, are you going to start talking about it with Adrift, but refuse to talk to me about it? Anyway I won't engage in lastwordism with you on it.

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