Massive Muslim Immigration...

[Mountain Man]

Back on topic to a question that has not been answered:

Is this (the question about the benefit of a given country) the most important question to ask when confronted with people in need? Ideally you don't help others for your own benefit.

As my interpreting instructor used to say, "It depends on your constellation of demands." Questions like this rarely have a simple, all encompassing answer.

[Charles]

As my interpreting instructor used to say, "It depends on your constellation of demands." Questions like this rarely have a simple, all encompassing answer.

I believe you have missed the point that I was actually asking seer whether his "constellation of demands" was the right one. It appears strange and wrong to focus on your own benefit when confronted with people in need.

[Cow Poke]

Back on topic to a question that has not been answered:

Is this (the question about the benefit of a given country) the most important question to ask when confronted with people in need? Ideally you don't help others for your own benefit.

That's a really wide open question, Charles. Helping individual people because you have a good heart and they need the help is different than a national policy and national law.

[Sam]

That's crap. Nobody was asking for that - he made a claim that he gives his fair share. I asked what that was. He could have simply said he tithes 10% or he regularly donates to a shelter, or he simply allows the government to take it out of his paycheck...

Why don't you let him speak, Sam? Are you trying to out-nanny the nanny?

Well, I'm about to take my leave again so I'll just say this:

Folks here need to think about how their in-group behavior is making interactions on this site a hostile experience for those who don't conform to a very narrow ideological mold. Some of us are more or less "grandfathered in" by virtue of our long history on the site and our exposure to this behavior over many years. But I see little to no reason why most people happening upon a thread or, indeed, forum like this would have any inclination to stay.

It's not a problem of robust disagreement or even passionate argument. Y'all know how to behave and you know a lot of things being done and being tolerated aren't appropriate. And it's gotten well past the point where it's just one or two outliers. It's a group behavior operating on an in-group mentality that, by design, tries to isolate and ostracize out-group participants.

If this site is going to be something resembling its mission, folks here need to do better at policing themselves and their in-group. If it's going to be a social club, y'all can do what you want but please try not to attach the Christian label to it.

In either case, I'm not applying for the nanny job.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

Well, I'm about to take my leave again so I'll just say this:

Folks here need to think about how their in-group behavior is making interactions on this site a hostile experience for those who don't conform to a very narrow ideological mold. Some of us are more or less "grandfathered in" by virtue of our long history on the site and our exposure to this behavior over many years. But I see little to no reason why most people happening upon a thread or, indeed, forum like this would have any inclination to stay.

It's not a problem of robust disagreement or even passionate argument. Y'all know how to behave and you know a lot of things being done and being tolerated aren't appropriate. And it's gotten well past the point where it's just one or two outliers. It's a group behavior operating on an in-group mentality that, by design, tries to isolate and ostracize out-group participants.

If this site is going to be something resembling its mission, folks here need to do better at policing themselves and their in-group. If it's going to be a social club, y'all can do what you want but please try not to attach the Christian label to it.

In either case, I'm not applying for the nanny job.

--Sam

Thanks, Sam. Stop in any time.

[Mountain Man]

I believe you have missed the point that I was actually asking seer whether his "constellation of demands" was the right one.

You apparently have no idea what a constellation of demands is. It's not right or wrong, it simply is.

[Mountain Man]

Folks here need to think about how their in-group behavior is making interactions on this site a hostile experience for those who don't conform to a very narrow ideological mold. Some of us are more or less "grandfathered in" by virtue of our long history on the site and our exposure to this behavior over many years. But I see little to no reason why most people happening upon a thread or, indeed, forum like this would have any inclination to stay.

I appreciate how you self-righteously exclude yourself and those in your own "in-group" from this accusation.

[Charles]

You apparently have no idea what a constellation of demands is. It's not right or wrong, it simply is.

Or I had no idea that moral responsibility could not be a demand in your view.

[Mountain Man]

Or I had no idea that moral responsibility could not be a demand in your view.

Perhaps it would help if you understand what is meant by "constellation of demands".

https://www.deafinterpreteracademy.c...tellations.pdf

While the above focuses primarily on ASL interpreting, the demand-control schema intuitively has broader applications.

[Charles]

Perhaps it would help if you understand what is meant by "constellation of demands".

https://www.deafinterpreteracademy.c...tellations.pdf

While the above focuses primarily on ASL interpreting, the demand-control schema intuitively has broader applications.

What you are talking about is what is meant by "contellation of demands" in a particular context that you had not pointed to beforehand. I am not going to restrict my discussion of this important topic to whatever framework or definition you like to point to.

There is no way to define your way out of answering a very basic question that contains the moral challenge as to whether your focus is right or wrong as a nation when your primary concern is your own benefit when confronted with people in need. Seer points to a particular context in which many tend to focus on the negative effects and forget that quite many people are alive, living meaningful lives with hopes and dreams thanks to nations not primarily concerned with their own benefit.

[Charles]

That's a really wide open question, Charles. Helping individual people because you have a good heart and they need the help is different than a national policy and national law.

Merely pointing out it is different does nothing to answer the question as to what is right or wrong. I don't hope you mean to imply nations should mainly concern themselves with their own benefit when confronted with people in need but I am uncertain whether that is what you indicate. Is it?

[Cow Poke]

Merely pointing out it is different does nothing to answer the question as to what is right or wrong.

Try asking specific questions.

I don't hope you mean to imply nations should mainly concern themselves with their own benefit when confronted with people in need but I am uncertain whether that is what you indicate.

The leaders of nations have a responsibility to look out for their own, and keep that in mind when setting immigration policy.

Is it?

Is it what?

[Charles]

Try asking specific questions.

I did: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post668138

It remains unanswered though there has been so many posts written based on that question.

The leaders of nations have a responsibility to look out for their own, and keep that in mind when setting immigration policy.

Yes. But is that their only responsibility?

[Cow Poke]

I did: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post668138

It remains unanswered though there has been so many posts written based on that question.

Cool.

Yes. But is that their only responsibility?

Are you PURPOSELY being obtuse?

[Cow Poke]

Is this the most important question to ask when confronted with people in need?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Ideally you don't help others for your own benefit.

Ideally, you don't help others to your own detriment. Put your oxygen mask on first, then help your fellow passengers.