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Thread: Parkland dad uncovers how district enabled deranged student-turned-shooter

  1. #21
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    This is the kind of discussion we need to be having because there have been enough massacres in recent years that we need to at least try to do something about it, and I don't think changing gun laws is likely to achieve that. But the obvious question here is what do you do with a kid like this? My fear (and observation from my past life as a substitute teacher) is that shuffling kids into alternative education settings just surrounds troubled kids with even worse influences.My cynical side thinks alternative education more about protecting the general population of students from kids like this. And just kicking the kid out of the education system altogether isn't likely to go much better either. There's no easy answer.
    Yeah, "alternative education" does, from my own experience, seem to be more about restoring order to the classroom for the masses than dealing with troubled kids. But we do that in society with jails, too - we take the problems and pool them all together, making it highly unlikely that any of the incarcerated individuals will actually improve, and more likely they'll digress.

    I think though, that it's a necessary evil --- first, remove the troublemakers from the general population, then try to figure out what to do with them. It's been 20 years ago, but I used to substitute teach in an "alternative education" setting, and it was a grand challenge, to be sure.

    I think, though, that the schools are so focused on their own reputation that they try hard to ignore problems to get their highest possible ratings.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. Amen KingsGambit amen'd this post.
  3. #22
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I could be wrong. I thought he said he was in Europe somewhere and I thought he mentioned English wasn't his native language. I guess he can confirm or deny.
    English is definitely not my native language. Thanks for the comments though to all of you. Unless that was sarcasm too:-)
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  4. #23
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    English is definitely not my native language. Thanks for the comments though to all of you. Unless that was sarcasm too:-)
    Mind sharing what your native language is?
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  5. #24
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    English is definitely not my native language. Thanks for the comments though to all of you. Unless that was sarcasm too:-)
    I remembered that after I was surprised at your comments to MM demanding he support his obvious (to me) sarcastic comment. I then realized that you probably didn't recognize the sarcasm in his comment and thought he was actually claiming that psychos only used guns, instead of mocking that idea.

    sorry for that.

  6. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I remembered that after I was surprised at your comments to MM demanding he support his obvious (to me) sarcastic comment. I then realized that you probably didn't recognize the sarcasm in his comment and thought he was actually claiming that psychos only used guns, instead of mocking that idea.

    sorry for that.
    I did recognize the sarcasm. However, sarcasm can be both funny and at the same time be used as a strawn man attack. I knew MM would not be able to provide an example. A more sophisticated sarcasm goes closer to the real world. His was so far away that the statement was rather empty.
    Last edited by Charles; 09-11-2019 at 08:01 AM.

  7. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I did recognize the sarcasm. However, sarcasm can be both funny and at the same time be used as a strawn man attack. I knew MM would not be able to provide an example. A more sophisticated sarcasm goes closer to the real world. His was so far away that he statement was rather empty.
    OK then, apology retracted.

    You need him to give you examples of mass murders using something else than guns?


  8. #27
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    OK then, apology retracted.

    You need him to give you examples of mass murders using something else than guns?

    Nope. I need him to provide an example of someone who is even close to saying that no psychopath has ever found other means to commit mass murder than guns.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  9. #28
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Nope. I need him to provide an example of someone who is even close to saying that no psychopath has ever found other means to commit mass murder than guns.
    You need him to give an example of someone saying what he said as a sarcastic comment? He is the one who said it. He wasn't quoting someone. I think you are still missing the context of the comment.

    Many of our politicians act as if eliminating guns will eliminate mass murders. This is what Seer meant by his comment "But it's the GUNS!"

    MM made the sarcastic statement "Because no psychopath has ever found other means to commit mass murder.", with the actual meaning of "Psychos will always find another way to mass murder people" - which is true. Look at the suicide bombers, the guys who drive vans into crowds, etc. So eliminating guns is not going to eliminate mass murders. We need to intervene before they get the guns. Obviously in the OP we see a situation where there were plenty of signs that this kid was mentally disturbed but they didn't do anything about it.

  10. #29
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    MM made the sarcastic statement "Because no psychopath has ever found other means to commit mass murder.", with the actual meaning of "Psychos will always find another way to mass murder people" - which is true.
    It is likely to be true in many cases. How do you know it is true in all cases? And are those other ways usually as effective? I have not seen anyone denying other methods exist and can be used. What I have seen them point to is that they will be less effective or are less likely to be used.
    Last edited by Charles; 09-11-2019 at 08:36 AM.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  11. #30
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    It is likely to be true in many cases. How do you know it is true in all cases? And are those other ways usually as effective. I have not seen anyone denying other methods exist and can be used. What I have seen them point to is that they will be less effective or are less likely to be used.
    Back to ignore.

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