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Thread: Universalism

  1. #91
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Lee, are you arguing the case for universalism because you believe that is what scripture teaches?
    I believe Scripture gives us reason to hope that all will repent.

    Do you believe that all will be saved regardless of their lack of unbelief while alive, that all will be given a second chance to accept Christ as Saviour?
    I'm not sure how it might work out, I see three threads in Scripture, eternal punishment, annihilation of the wicked, and God all in all.

    Satan and his angels will be sent to the lake of fire forever because they rebelled against God. Unbelievers also rebel against God and Jesus said in John 8 that they are of their father the devil. Same crime, same punishment. And no description of hell in scripture indicates that time spent in hell is a remedial experience or remedial justice.
    Yet the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, not for people. So if people somehow don't belong there, may we hope they won't stay there?

    God's very nature, as a holy and just God, manifests itself in punishment of sin. If He does not punish sin, then He is not holy nor just.
    Yes, agreed. However, note that the Lord will restore Sodom (Eze. 16:53), which must mean former inhabitants there, which gives me reason to hope for those who are "an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." (Jude 7).

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. #92
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    maybe you should become a Catholic since they believe in purgatory?
    Though I have Calvinist leanings, not Molinist. I don't seem to fit in well in any doctrinal scheme!

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  3. #93
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post

    Yet the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, not for people. So if people somehow don't belong there, may we hope they won't stay there?
    What makes you think that the eternal fire was not meant for people?

    Matthew 7:13-14 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    Entering the Kingdom
    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

    Matthew 8:12 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    12 But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Matthew 10:28 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    28 Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Matthew 13:40-42 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    40 Therefore, just as the weeds are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather from His kingdom everything that causes sin[a] and those guilty of lawlessness.[b] 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 18:8 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    8 If your hand or your foot causes your downfall, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into the eternal fire.

    Mark 3:28-29 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins[a] and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”[b]—

    Mark 9:43-48 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    43 And if your hand causes your downfall, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than to have two hands and go to hell—the unquenchable fire, [44 where
    Their worm does not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.][a][b]
    45 And if your foot causes your downfall, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and be thrown into hell— [the unquenchable fire, 46 where
    Their worm does not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.][c][d]
    47 And if your eye causes your downfall, gouge it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
    Their worm does not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.[e]

    2 Thessalonians 1:9 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the Lord’s presence and from His glorious strength

    Jude 7 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    7 In the same way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them committed sexual immorality and practiced perversions,[a] just as angels did, and serve as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

  4. #94
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    maybe you should become a Catholic since they believe in purgatory?
    My favorite Protestant writer (John Stackhouse) believes in purgatory. I happen to think he's wrong on this one though.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  5. #95
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    My favorite Protestant writer (John Stackhouse) believes in purgatory. I happen to think he's wrong on this one though.
    Does he portend to give any scriptural evidence?
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. #96
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Does he portend to give any scriptural evidence?
    Yes. His biggest piece of scriptural evidence was 1 Corinthians 3:15, and he focused on that there is no reason to think that this purification process happens instantly. He was careful to distinguish his view from the Catholic view that it was needed to actually satisfy the payment for sins, because that is totally against the Protestant view of how God justifies us.

    (Again, I don't agree with it but I didn't see it as "unorthodox".)
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  7. #97
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Yes. His biggest piece of scriptural evidence was 1 Corinthians 3:15, and he focused on that there is no reason to think that this purification process happens instantly. He was careful to distinguish his view from the Catholic view that it was needed to actually satisfy the payment for sins, because that is totally against the Protestant view of how God justifies us.

    (Again, I don't agree with it but I didn't see it as "unorthodox".)
    Interesting. Thanks
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. #98
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    What makes you think that the eternal fire was not meant for people?

    Matthew 7:13-14 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    Entering the Kingdom
    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it...
    The eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, so It wasn't prepared at least initially, for people.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  9. #99
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    The eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, so It wasn't prepared at least initially, for people.

    Blessings,
    Lee

    That is not what the Scriptures I cited say.

  10. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  11. #100
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    That is not what the Scriptures I cited say.
    Well, one verse is not erased by other verses, we have to take them all together, and combine what they say.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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