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Thread: Never Forget...

  1. #91
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Except when you apply even a little exegesis, you quickly run into it being a lot more complex than "kill the infidel", you run into a historical situation where conversion is almost never under threat (Wahabi Islam is a very recent phenomenon). You can look above to Rogue06, who has to argue specifically for the order of revelation happening in a certain way, in order to argue that forced conversion is to be norm.

    So no, you're not applying any context, nor are you trying to learn about what Muslim scholars in the West are arguing. It just looks like to me that you want to do quote-mining on Islam, and use that against them in exactly the same way that atheists quote mine the Bible.
    So Mohammad and Muslims for the majority of the religion's history simply misinterpreted the Koran?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #92
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    So Mohammad and Muslims for the majority of the religion's history simply misinterpreted the Koran?
    On the contrary, its the opposite to what you're claiming. For the majority of history conversion to Islam has not been under threat. Wahabi Islam is a relatively recent phenomenon, otherwise, you only find it in various local conquests in history. In most cases, you'd be as safe as any person of a foreign religion who journed to a Christian country and settled there.

  3. #93
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    On the contrary, its the opposite to what you're claiming. For the majority of history conversion to Islam has not been under threat. Wahabi Islam is a relatively recent phenomenon, otherwise, you only find it in various local conquests in history. In most cases, you'd be as safe as any person of a foreign religion who journed to a Christian country and settled there.
    I'm sorry Leonhard, screw Islam...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #94
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    I was at home getting ready for work with the news on my T.V. had turned it on to see them talking about the plane hitting the first tower and like most folks just thought it was an accident but when moments later the 2nd one hit I knew we were under attack. I called my Mom and my Brother and told them turn on the news then finished getting ready for work.

    It as not until I got to work I heard about the Pentagon and saw the first tower go down while I was watching the news in our break room. I will never forget the reaction of everyone in the break room as well as mine.

    "Never Forget"

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    As many of you know I was a paid firefighter for a decade. This picture is from today, one of the houses I used to work at. To the right is an I beam from the towers, and one flag for every FDNY firefighter that was lost:

    69839624_454123035183856_2115979276904824832_n.jpg
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  6. Amen Cow Poke, DesertBerean amen'd this post.
  7. #96
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    On the contrary, its the opposite to what you're claiming. For the majority of history conversion to Islam has not been under threat. Wahabi Islam is a relatively recent phenomenon, otherwise, you only find it in various local conquests in history. In most cases, you'd be as safe as any person of a foreign religion who journed to a Christian country and settled there.
    ...as long as you kept your head down, avoided wearing the wrong clothes, and paid your extra taxes like a good little dhimmi, and managed not to make too much money, sure. The Martyrs of the Turkish Yoke (largely pre-Wahabi), the victims of the Armenian genocide (not Wahabi-related), etc., would beg to differ with your blandishments.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  9. #97
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    ...as long as you kept your head down, avoided wearing the wrong clothes, and paid your extra taxes like a good little dhimmi, and managed not to make too much money, sure.
    And Jews were forced, pressured, coerced and persecuted systematically under Christian rule, from the Church Fathers (which both the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics raise to the altars). Or I could talk about how gloriously righteously the natives of America were treated by the conquistadores. If you wish to browse by instances there are plenty of cases where you can find people of the Christian persuasion abusing their power, and doing evil.

    What modern day states do we have that have implemented jizya? Taliban dominated areas of Pakistan, areas occupied by Daesh and Islamic State?

    The Martyrs of the Turkish Yoke (largely pre-Wahabi), the victims of the Armenian genocide (not Wahabi-related), etc., would beg to differ with your blandishments.
    If you have to go back six hundred years to support current-day islamophobia your case is pretty much dead. And if the Armenian genocide condemns Muslims, then expect God to ask you to do penance for what the Hutu did to the Tutsi.

  10. #98
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    And Jews were forced, pressured, coerced and persecuted systematically under Christian rule, from the Church Fathers (which both the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics raise to the altars). Or I could talk about how gloriously righteously the natives of America were treated by the conquistadores. If you wish to browse by instances there are plenty of cases where you can find people of the Christian persuasion abusing their power, and doing evil.

    What modern day states do we have that have implemented jizya? Taliban dominated areas of Pakistan, areas occupied by Daesh and Islamic State?



    If you have to go back six hundred years to support current-day islamophobia your case is pretty much dead. And if the Armenian genocide condemns Muslims, then expect God to ask you to do penance for what the Hutu did to the Tutsi.
    It still remains that that those who do practice beating their wives, killing infidels and converting by the sword are obeying the Quran, and are the orthodox muslims, while those who don't are the unorthodox. While the opposite is true for Christians. Those Christians who mistreat their wives, convert by the sword, and kill non-believers are not obeying Christ or the bible and are unorthodox.

    What you are arguing is that the peaceful muslims in Europe are unorthodox and that is a good thing. We agree, but it doesn't change the fact that Islam is a religion that is based on violence built right in.

  11. Amen Mountain Man, RumTumTugger, One Bad Pig amen'd this post.
  12. #99
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    ...it doesn't change the fact that Islam is a religion that is based on violence built right in.
    The strict daily rituals was something Mohammad used to build military discipline into his followers.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  13. #100
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    And Jews were forced, pressured, coerced and persecuted systematically under Christian rule, from the Church Fathers (which both the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics raise to the altars). Or I could talk about how gloriously righteously the natives of America were treated by the conquistadores. If you wish to browse by instances there are plenty of cases where you can find people of the Christian persuasion abusing their power, and doing evil.

    What modern day states do we have that have implemented jizya? Taliban dominated areas of Pakistan, areas occupied by Daesh and Islamic State?
    What modern day states do not? I assume you can readily provide evidence.
    If you have to go back six hundred years to support current-day islamophobia your case is pretty much dead. And if the Armenian genocide condemns Muslims, then expect God to ask you to do penance for what the Hutu did to the Tutsi.
    The Turkish Yoke is all of a century or two past. And what does the Huto genocide of the Tutsi have to do with the price of tea in China?
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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