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Thread: Never Forget...

  1. #21
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    She refuses to tie the terrorism to Islam, which I support her in. At least if all muslims should share guilt in that terrorist act, then all Christians should share guilt in every murder, or act of terrorism committed by Christians anywhere.

    At least if we're to be consistent, which is something seer is obsessed about being.
    Difference being that Christianity calls for peace while Islam calls for violence.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #22
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  3. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  4. #23
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    She refuses to tie the terrorism to Islam, which I support her in. At least if all muslims should share guilt in that terrorist act, then all Christians should share guilt in every murder, or act of terrorism committed by Christians anywhere.
    Two things are different...

    A) If a "Christian" commits murder or terrorism in the name of Christ, the VAST majority of Christians will quickly and clearly condemn it as NOT Christian.
    2) If a Muslim commits murder or terrorism in the name of Allah, he is celebrated around the world as a warrior for Jihad.

    At least if we're to be consistent, which is something seer is obsessed about being.
    See above.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  5. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  6. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFdGe_b7Slo

    When asked directly by a reporter, she pivots and answers something completely different. She has been asked this before, even accused by Trump of being Pro-Al Queda yet she will not condemn them.
    Nope. She is not asking something completely different. There is a very interesting point in what she says:

    Rep. Ilhan Omar refused to answer whether she supports the Islamist terrorist group al-Qaeda, at a press conference Monday.

    “I will not dignify it with an answer because I know that every single Islamophobe, every single person who is hateful, who is driven by an ideology of ‘othering’ as this president is, rejoices in us responding to that and us defending ourselves,” Omar said.
    And it goes on:

    “I do not expect every time there is a white supremacist who attacks or there is a white man who kills in a school or in a movie theater, or in a mosque, or in a synagogue, I don’t expect my white community members to respond on whether they love that person or not. And so I think it is beyond time, it is beyond time to ask Muslims to condemn terrorists. We are no longer going to allow the dignification of such ridiculous — ridiculous statement,” she said.
    https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/16...mic-terrorism/
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  7. #25
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Difference being that Christianity calls for peace while Islam calls for violence.
    Neither of that is true. War is perfectly okay, even mandated by Christianity in certain circumstances, no one except the earliest Church Fathers believed that before you became a Christian you had to renounce and repent of having been a soldier. Which is what they made the early centurion do, and not for any association with the roman religions either.

    Not only is it okay, in the context of Christian morals, to engage in war to protect your borders. It is also okay to engage in war to conquer in certain contexts when you're defeating an enemy that is threatening you.

    I will grant that both the Quran and the Hadith have more specific charges about what to do with territories that are conquered, and its more fertile soil if you want to quote mine, but I know of no serious Islamic scholar who condones terrorism. Violent Wahabi Jihadist misquote their passages worse than Christian slave traders quoted Biblical passages in defense of what they're doing. You'll find more support for a persons right to own a slave if you're a Christian, than you will for committing terrorism if you're a Muslim.

    No Muslim friend of mine ever argued that those terrorists did anything good, if anything they hate them more than you do, because they've caused the world to fear them unjustly.

  8. Amen Roy amen'd this post.
  9. #26
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    A) If a "Christian" commits murder or terrorism in the name of Christ, the VAST majority of Christians will quickly and clearly condemn it as NOT Christian.
    Or claim that the person isn't a Christian, because Christian people don't do that.

    2) If a Muslim commits murder or terrorism in the name of Allah, he is celebrated around the world as a warrior for Jihad.
    We must be reading about other Muslims, because those I'm aware of do not celebrate that stuff.

  10. #27
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    No Muslim friend of mine ever argued that those terrorists did anything good, if anything they hate them more than you do, because they've caused the world to fear them unjustly.
    I would guess that's true with the vast majority of Muslims, Leon -- I was looking up some statistics to prove otherwise, and - especially in non-Muslim countries - there is a lot of that sentiment, where Muslims hate that other Muslims are doing acts of terror in the name of Allah.

    Still, in other countries - Muslim dominated - there is dancing and celebrating in the streets that "the Great Satan" has been dealt a blow.

    I don't think you'll really find large communities of Christians celebrating any Christian who commits a terrorist act in the name of Christ.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  12. #28
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Or claim that the person isn't a Christian, because Christian people don't do that.
    By their fruit you shall know them --- there is no New Testament justification for a Christian to commit acts of terrorism. (And I specifically said "in the name of Christ" to make it on par with "in the name of Allah")

    We must be reading about other Muslims, because those I'm aware of do not celebrate that stuff.
    Agreed - but you can't dispute (I hope) that there are, indeed, whole communities that dance and celebrate in the streets when such terror is committed in the name of Allah.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  13. #29
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Nope. She is not asking something completely different. There is a very interesting point in what she says:



    And it goes on:



    https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/16...mic-terrorism/
    But she did not condemn al-Qaeda. I have yet to see anywhere she did. And yes if a particular white supremacist group did something like that I would condemn them by name, and their ideology. After all she supports CAIR

    *CAIR* apologizes for terrorist groups: Challenged repeatedly to denounce Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist groups, CAIR denounces the acts of violence but not their sponsors.

    It is connected to Hamas: Hamas, designated a terrorist organization by the U.S. and many other governments, indirectly created CAIR and the two groups remain tight. Examples: In 1994, CAIR head Nihad Awad publicly declared his support for Hamas; the Holy Land Foundation (HLF), a Hamas front group, contributed $5,000 to CAIR; in turn, CAIR exploited the 9/11 attacks to raise money for HLF; and, this past August, demonstrators at a CAIR-sponsored rally in Florida proclaimed “We are Hamas!”

    It settled a lawsuit: CAIR initiated a libel lawsuit in 2004 over five statements by a group called Anti-CAIR. But two years later, CAIR settled the suit with prejudice (meaning that it cannot be reopened), implicitly acknowledging the accuracy of Anti-CAIR’s assertions, which included:

    “CAIR is a terrorist supporting front organization that is partially funded by terrorists”;
    “CAIR . . . is supported by terrorist supporting individuals, groups and countries”;
    “CAIR has proven links to, and was founded by, Islamic terrorists”; and
    “CAIR actively supports terrorists and terrorist supporting groups and nations.”
    It includes individuals accused of terrorism: At least seven board members or staff at CAIR have been arrested, denied entry to the U.S., or were indicted on or pled guilty to (or were convicted of) terrorist charges: Siraj Wahhaj, Bassem Khafagi, Randall (“Ismail”) Royer, Ghassan Elashi, Rabih Haddad, Muthanna Al-Hanooti, and Nabil Sadoun.

    It is in trouble with the law: Federal prosecutors in 2007 named CAIR (along with two other Islamic organizations) as “unindicted co-conspirators and/or joint venturers” in a criminal conspiracy to support Hamas financially. In 2008, the FBI ended contacts with CAIR because of concern about its continuing terrorist ties.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/...-daniel-pipes/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  14. #30
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I would guess that's true with the vast majority of Muslims, Leon -- I was looking up some statistics to prove otherwise, and - especially in non-Muslim countries - there is a lot of that sentiment, where Muslims hate that other Muslims are doing acts of terror in the name of Allah.
    I just believe Muslims in the West, for no other reason than this, deserve to be treated with the benefit of the doubt.

    Still, in other countries - Muslim dominated - there is dancing and celebrating in the streets that "the Great Satan" has been dealt a blow.
    I will also have to grant this. There's no doubt that there's a lot of animosity in certain countries towards the west, and acts of terrorism are seen as them sticking it to us by many there.

    I don't think you'll really find large communities of Christians celebrating any Christian who commits a terrorist act in the name of Christ.
    Also granted.

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