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  1. #51
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Is the listed support for Al Qaeda post 9/11 more attributable to anti-Americanism or to an actual, consistently violent worldview? (I'm working under the assumption here that the two can be separated, though I understand this is a point many will not be willing to grant.)

    I know a family friend who moved to Europe and is a professor in a secular Scandanavian country. He personally told me that he asked a class shortly after 9/11 who thought America got what it deserved, and hands shot up everywhere.
    "Technology has, in an enhanced way, given mockers a platform to set society on fire with polarizing speech. Internet culture privileges those whose insults are click bait." - Timothy Keller

  2. #52
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    So... then Trump shouldn't be criticized for not immediately condemning white supremacists for any atrocities that they might commit because the idea that he would support them is so absurd that he ought to refuse to answer the question.
    Ususally I would agree. I can understand why some people based on Trump's statements (go back where they came from, xxxxhole countries, good people on both sides etc.) would think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    The fact is that Omar and Tlaib both have close connections with groups that either sponsor or support terrorism. Just look at the group that was helping to sponsor their recent trip to Israel for just one example.
    Source?
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  3. #53
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    The Bible has an entire section where God Himself called openly for genocide. And that it was explicit genocide as well, with even children being killed as part of the order.

    Mountain Man's comment was "No where in the Bible will you find a call to arms to spread Christianity." What you said does not refute this.
    "Technology has, in an enhanced way, given mockers a platform to set society on fire with polarizing speech. Internet culture privileges those whose insults are click bait." - Timothy Keller

  4. #54
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So you admit she refuses to condemn Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism, then
    She's condemned the terrorism, you're just mad she doesn't blame it on Islam.

  5. #55
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    You literally had to deliberately ignore the quote in the image that ox was asking about.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  6. #56
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Mountain Man's comment was "No where in the Bible will you find a call to arms to spread Christianity." What you said does not refute this.
    And I can easily imagine some weird Christian sect believing that because God commanded genocide, then genocide cannot be evil. And use that to defend completely annihilating some other group in a civil war, such as the Hutu who tried to completely destroy the Tutsi in Rwanda. I would disagree with them. Just as I see Islamic scholars making fairly good arguments doing with those who believe its not just to perpetrate religious war, or to kill infidels.

    At the very least if you wanna thinly quote-mine the Quran or Hadith, you've ceded all argument to atheists who strip-mine the Bible for "embarrassing" quotes. If we can go at it context-less and without an intellectual discussion, then the Bible also contains stuff like delinquent sons being stoned to death, homosexuals being stoned to death, people working on the sabbath being stoned to death, foreskins as marriage proposals are good, coloured sticks can cause sheeps offsprings wool to change color, etc...

    Is there a context in which those sentences are understood properly yes. And when atheists don't give us the time to learn this context we accuse them rightfully of being bigoted and ignorant.

    But when we won't listen to Islamic scholars with the same fervor that we're listened to?

  7. #57
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Ususally I would agree. I can understand why some people based on Trump's statements (go back where they came from, xxxxhole countries, good people on both sides etc.) would think otherwise.
    Have you ever been to some of the places mentioned? I have. "xxxxhole" was an insult to actual "xxxxholes."



    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Source?
    I was going to ask what rock you've been living under to not know about this but then remembered that most of the MSM deliberately spiked that part of the story in order to portray them as innocent victims.

    I suggest that you look up Miftah, the group sponsoring their trip, which has, among other things, proudly praised female suicide bombers and routinely pushes the medieval blood libel (the long disproven myth that Jews ritually sacrifice Christian children at Passover in order to obtain blood for unleavened bread).

    Shockingly, shortly after the incident, on CNN's Reliable Sources Bari Weiss, a New York Times staff editor in the opinion section frankly admitted that the MSM is ignoring Omar and Talib's blatant anti-Semitism. Responding to a question from host John Avlon, Weiss said:

    "But another huge story, one that has not been covered by any mainstream paper or network is the fact that their trip to Israel, or as they're calling Palestine, was being sponsored by a group that literally published neo-Nazi blood libels and said that it supported female suicide bombers. You know, hailing them as heroes. That's a scandal.

    If someone like Steve King was going to Sweden or Norway and eating with neo-Nazi groups, that would be front page news."

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  8. #58
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Is the listed support for Al Qaeda post 9/11 more attributable to anti-Americanism or to an actual, consistently violent worldview? (I'm working under the assumption here that the two can be separated, though I understand this is a point many will not be willing to grant.)

    I know a family friend who moved to Europe and is a professor in a secular Scandanavian country. He personally told me that he asked a class shortly after 9/11 who thought America got what it deserved, and hands shot up everywhere.
    I have talked to very many anti-American people over the years (I know some would think I am one myself. I am not). I have found them condemning everything, even McDonald's (how dare they?). George Bush could hardly finish a sentence before they started. And, surprise, surprise, Trump did not change that for the better. However, I have never heard anyone saying America got what it deserved. They all seemed very aware - as one should always be also in cases of war - that the people who died were individual people of intrinsic worth.

    There were two minutes of silence all over the University I went to and everyone had deep respect.

    I know this is my experience and not statistics or something I can conclude is the case everywhere. I felt like sharing it anyway.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  9. #59
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    And I can easily imagine some weird Christian sect believing that because God commanded genocide, then genocide cannot be evil. And use that to defend completely annihilating some other group in a civil war, such as the Hutu who tried to completely destroy the Tutsi in Rwanda. I would disagree with them. Just as I see Islamic scholars making fairly good arguments doing with those who believe its not just to perpetrate religious war, or to kill infidels.

    At the very least if you wanna thinly quote-mine the Quran or Hadith, you've ceded all argument to atheists who strip-mine the Bible for "embarrassing" quotes. If we can go at it context-less and without an intellectual discussion, then the Bible also contains stuff like delinquent sons being stoned to death, homosexuals being stoned to death, people working on the sabbath being stoned to death, foreskins as marriage proposals are good, coloured sticks can cause sheeps offsprings wool to change color, etc...

    Is there a context in which those sentences are understood properly yes. And when atheists don't give us the time to learn this context we accuse them rightfully of being bigoted and ignorant.

    But when we won't listen to Islamic scholars with the same fervor that we're listened to?
    You don't have to "quote mine" anything. The verses ordering the forcible conversion are among the very last and abrogated any verses encouraging peaceful co-existence.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  10. Amen Mountain Man, Cerebrum123, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  11. #60
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    You literally had to deliberately ignore the quote in the image that ox was asking about.
    That is not an actual quote. It is a part of a sentence.

    However, talking about ignoring, you have to ignore the twitter post I made you aware of in order to justify the manipulation in the picture.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

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