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Thread: Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

  1. #61
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I understand it just fine, itís based on ignorance and misunderstandings of the entire purpose of the second amendment.
    Bull - my point HAD NOTHING to do with the second freaking amendment - I don't even support new bans at this point.

    You:

  2. #62
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    In actuality after discovering that the ammo for pellet guns Edited by a Moderator delivery system.
    Yeah, poor Yorick - first and last day on the job at Roguetech.

  3. #63
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    They can be adjusted with a bump stock to be fully automatic. They can fire up to 400 rounds a minute and were, I believe, the weapons used by the Las Vegas shooter who killed or wounded some 500 or so people.
    No they donít, but bump stocks are already banned, so your point is...

    Yes, they are lethal just the same.
    Lots of things are lethal so your point is...

    Basically irrelevant to the current discussion.
    Your claim was that they are Ďbasically the sameí and they are Ďthe sameí in the sense that a Ford and Toyota are. Yeah both share some stuff in common, but they have different characteristics.

    Yep.

    The main difference with respect to mass shootings is that the Ak47 is automatic, but the AR15 can be adjusted to be automatic.
    And yet thereís only been one mass shooting event, in the past 5 years, where a bump stock was used. Automatic weapons are not all that useful in a mass shooting. Do you know why? They are highly inaccurate and use a lot of ammo. Look at how the military uses automatics and look at the one mass shooting that used a bump stock and what do you notice? The military doesnít hand out automatics as standard issue for a reason. They tend to be used fixed to vehicles or carried by one man, with the rest using the M-4. Automatics are suppression fire weapons where they are used to take out rows of enemies or simply hold them at bay. They use a lot of ammo and most mass shootings simply are not going to work as well with one.

    I didn't bring up the AR15, you did, and no one wants to take everyones guns away, we want better, safer gun laws so that it is much more difficult for maniac's, lunatics, psychopaths to get their hands on what are basically machine guns which themselves are already outlawed.
    Thatís vague and too bad thatís not true because they donít have Ďbasically machine gunsí they have semi auto weapons that the government has shown massive incompetence in keeping out of their hands. Look at most high profile mass shootings and here is the common thread:

    Government incompetence and inability to enforce already existing laws and to follow up lead to these shootings.

    Call me skeptical, but maybe the government should show competence and ability to enforce the already existing laws before we call for new ones.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-17-2019 at 04:43 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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  5. #64
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Bull - my point HAD NOTHING to do with the second freaking amendment - I don't even support new bans at this point.

    You:
    So why are you telling Jim your pro gun control?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  6. #65
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    *emphasis mine

    This is only true for the details of legislation - not for the principle of the issue. It's a bad argument to make - how well does 'sit down and shut up' usually work with you?
    I generally don't go around pretending to be an expert in areas I am not, and if I do overestimate my knowledge, I will acknowledge that when it is pointed out to me. As I recently did with Lurch regarding several issues regarding climate change.

  7. #66
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    The military doesnít hand out automatics as standard issue for a reason. They tend to be used fixed to vehicles or carried by one man, with the rest using the M-4.
    um, M4's have an automatic setting.

  8. #67
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    um, M4's have an automatic setting.
    They do, but they are mostly used in semi auto mode. Full auto is really inaccurate and unless your enemy decides to line up in a nice, tight Napoleon column, they are not really going to kill a lot of enemies. The main goal is suppressing fire because you need to do something that exposes you and you want the enemy diving for cover and firing back less. They are not primarily a machine gun.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  9. #68
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    They do, but they are mostly used in semi auto mode. Full auto is really inaccurate and unless your enemy decides to line up in a nice, tight Napoleon column, they are not really going to kill a lot of enemies. The main goal is suppressing fire because you need to do something that exposes you and you want the enemy diving for cover and firing back less. They are not primarily a machine gun.
    We were discussing the difference between AR15s and actual military rifles like the M16 and M4. The difference is that both of those have full auto settings.

  10. #69
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    We were discussing the difference between AR15s and actual military rifles like the M16 and M4. The difference is that both of those have full auto settings.
    Yep, but jimmy acts as thought they are the same. Can you turn an AR-15 into a full auto? Yeah, but it takes machine tools and knowing how to do it, to do that. Thereís a reason you donít see mass shooters doing that, so I really donít get his focus on full autoís other than to mud up the waters.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  11. #70
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    While we are discussing gun bans.... I have heard many people say that disarming the population won't lead to government overreach and even if civilians have guns what could they do against an army. But in every country that has become a totalitarian state, the first job was to disarm the civilians. Especially in socialist/communist regimes. Like Venezuela. The disarmed the people by using the same arguments Beto and the liberals use, to make people "safer" - and once they confiscated the guns, the oppression started.

    From 2012:

    Venezuela bans private gun ownership

    Venezuela has brought a new gun law into effect which bans the commercial sale of firearms and ammunition.

    Until now, anyone with a gun permit could buy arms from a private company.

    Under the new law, only the army, police and certain groups like security companies will be able to buy arms from the state-owned weapons manufacturer and importer.

    The ban is the latest attempt by the government to improve security and cut crime ahead of elections in October

    Venezuela saw more than 18,000 murders last year and the capital, Caracas, is thought to be one of the most dangerous cities in Latin America.

    The government has been running a gun amnesty in the run-up to the introduction of the new law to try to encourage people to give up their illegal arms without fear of consequences.

    One member of the public in Caracas told the BBC: "They're killing people every day. This law is important but they need to do more, they're not doing enough now."

    Hugo Chavez's government says the ultimate aim is to disarm all civilians.


    And we all know how that turned out.

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